4722 replies to this topic

[Nev]

OK, i think i've understood...   As you have moved the disk away from the hub, you can only center it on the 65.1 portion of it. Why not shiming the hub in this case ?? (shim between hub and hub carrier)

Yes you are right, I didn't explain this point well. The 7.2mm spacer mounts between the hub and brake disc, although this is unusual this was necessary to force the disc outboard so that the disc lined up with the calipers exactly. Next the disc is placed on top of the 7.2mm spacer (on the narrower 70mm part of hub, hence why it needs the spigot ring to centre). Lastly the wheel goes on top of the brake disc. I will take some pics when I mount it all up on the car again so it's more obvious. All in all it's both an elegant solution and also a cheap one. Elegant as it eliminates using any bracketry to mount the calipers on. This is good IMO, as the calipers are mounted directly onto the upright (as intended) with no risk of sheer. Lastly, it is cheap because the discs cost only £12 each! To put it into perspective my whole brake conversion will be about 1/4 of the cost of the Elise Parts off the shelf job.

Edited by Nev, 03 May 2015 - 05:15 PM.

[chris_uk]

ah, you didnt say 330mm discs...  (if you did its because i didnt read it all) 

 

i had 330mm discs on mine with the hightech calipers. worked ok but not as well as the propper solution.. but that would of been down to the pads.

 

[Nev]

I was warned off Hightech stuff by a few people. I went for the Brembos for 5 reasons: 1: Josh used them on his car with epic eye poping braking performance. 2: If they stop 1.5 Ton Porche quickly, they will stop Nipper even faster. 3: They are a low maintenance "road" caliper and will barely need looking at ever again hopefully. 4: Porsche "copy" pads are dead cheap (£25 for a pair) 5: The relatively large surface area of the Brembo pads will mean they last a lot longer than the titchy AP pads.

Edited by Nev, 03 May 2015 - 05:31 PM.

[Nev]

Nev please can you bring this beast to the Hoon? Would love to see it in action!

Ha ha, yes I would love to come, but the thought of driving up the motorway for 7 hours just to get there makes it somewhat unappealing I do love Scotland and have been there at least 20 times, rock climbing, skiing, ice climbing and walking etc. But always getting up there in a comfy car. Also, it's just so damn dramatic and beautiful I often prefer to just potter around on the roads at 20 MPH gawking and the breath taking scenery.

Edited by Nev, 03 May 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[Nev]

About time you took nipper around that track Nev!

They aren't very happy with his noise output, wouldn't even let me on for a single lap

You lost a full days track cost?

Nope, they have static sound tested him 3 times now and say he can't go on. If/when the brakes are completed, my next ( ) project is to buy a welder and make myself a quiet exhaust. This will be the 5th exhaust the car has had !

Edited by Nev, 03 May 2015 - 05:46 PM.

[Exmantaa]

 

The main reason is that if I am going to re-engineer something I might as well do it to the max, having 330mm discs increases 2 things: leverage effect and better pedal feel between locking/unlocking (usually). I am hoping that once all the changes are implemented this setup will be properly powerful (ability to lock out at any speed), fade free, [color=#ff0000;]correct the bias issue [/color]and also provide good pedal feedback. I didn't want to go to the effort of changing everything and only get a small % increase in braking, so hence why I have plumped for 330 discs. The key to the improved braking will be the master cylinder change and brake bias valve I think, with the increased discs and bigger pad area dealing with fade issues.

I will also be thankful to get rid of the RC6 metalised pads I've had to use for the last 5 years, as the dust they make is terribly nasty to the wheels. Porche pads can get got for £25 a set too, so far cheaper than £200 for RC6s.

 

 

So what are you doing for the rear's, as that will now need some hefty improving to correct the OEM rearward bias?

[Nev]

The main reason is that if I am going to re-engineer something I might as well do it to the max, having 330mm discs increases 2 things: leverage effect and better pedal feel between locking/unlocking (usually). I am hoping that once all the changes are implemented this setup will be properly powerful (ability to lock out at any speed), fade free, [color=rgb(255,0,0);]correct the bias issue [/color]and also provide good pedal feedback. I didn't want to go to the effort of changing everything and only get a small % increase in braking, so hence why I have plumped for 330 discs. The key to the improved braking will be the master cylinder change and brake bias valve I think, with the increased discs and bigger pad area dealing with fade issues.

I will also be thankful to get rid of the RC6 metalised pads I've had to use for the last 5 years, as the dust they make is terribly nasty to the wheels. Porche pads can get got for £25 a set too, so far cheaper than £200 for RC6s.

 
So what are you doing for the rear's, as that will now need some hefty improving to correct the OEM rearward bias?

For the rears, I have already bought some more Brembo 4 pots, this time from a Porsche Cayenne Turbo (450 BHP 2200 KG car!!). These ones are lug mounted, so I am hoping the bracketry will be simple. I am hoping to use the Alfa 159 discs for the rears as well, though this is not certain yet (depends on how the offset issue pans out).

Edited by Nev, 03 May 2015 - 05:44 PM.

[The Batman]

Should fit a bias valve and servo delete, the braking I get along with the feedback I get through the pedal is awesome! FYI 4pot/2pot with bells and rotors and pf pads

[Nev]

Should fit a bias valve and servo delete, the braking I get along with the feedback I get through the pedal is awesome! FYI 4pot/2pot with bells and rotors and pf pads

Keep up Joe, the bias valve is fully intended (unless by some fluke the bias turns out to be mechanically correct) Josh has his bias valve in the cabin even, so he can adjust on the fly like an F1 racer! I will almost certainly keep the servo, it makes a huge difference to reduce leg power required. I've driven non served cars before and the though the feel is certainly better I'd prefer the mental comfort of powered brakes. As a matter of interest, what's the max speed that you can lock out all your wheels on your car (and what tyre widths do you have)?

Edited by Nev, 03 May 2015 - 06:03 PM.

[The Batman]

Maybe with a caliper/pad that big you will need the servo! I too have the bias valve in the cabin. Sorry it's hard to keep up with everyone's projects!

[Ali87]

Nev please can you bring this beast to the Hoon? Would love to see it in action!

Ha ha, yes I would love to come, but the thought of driving up the motorway for 7 hours just to get there makes it somewhat unappealing I do love Scotland and have been there at least 20 times, rock climbing, skiing, ice climbing and walking etc. But always getting up there in a comfy car. Also, it's just so damn dramatic and beautiful I often prefer to just potter around on the roads at 20 MPH gawking and the breath taking scenery.

that's cool I'll bring him up for you!

[Nev]

I rang up Hel brakes today and ordered up a pair of bespoke front flexi hoses for the new calipers. The new hoses will be a bit longer (7cm) and also have a non standard 90 degree banjo to mount on to the calipers. This will help run the hose in a wide radius turn and protect approx. 40% of the hose from flying stones etc by running it inside the barrel of the wheel. Once these arrive in the post (assuming they fit) I can fit the whole setup to the fronts and take it for a test drive. Am getting excited ! If I am not too knackered tonight, I will take the rear calipers off and offer up the rear lug mounted Brembos. If the match/fitment looks viable, I will try and make some card or plywood brackets to interface between the existing hub carrier and the new calipers. Fingers crossed it will mate nicely.

Edited by Nev, 07 May 2015 - 09:02 AM.

[Nev]

Wowzers, had a big night in the garage after work today, 5pm to 10:30pm.

Managed to fit the entire new front brake system. Unfortunately the new hoses I had ordered didn't suit, so I have had to re-use the old ones. I also discovered that I had not realised that the spigot rings were approx. 1mm proud on one side of the disc brake. This gave me a heart attack as I thought the entire assembly would be wrong, but thankfully there was plenty of offset scope in the brake calipers to allow me to grind the 1mm excess off the spigot rings and mount it all as intended.

Here are the pics:

Spigot ring ground away coarsely - was cleaned up after taking the pic:




The new 12.9 bolts have an extra 8mm of depth over the old ones:




All flange mating faces rubbed down and sprayed with an acid primer to stop the dreaded reactions:




The new pads have +80% extra surface area than the old AP pads (somebody asked me that info a few week back):




Finally, after approximately 30 hours of labour, 20 hours of research and lots of head scratching, the car is down on the ground with the new setup:




I even bled it with the crappy pressure bleeder(rush job with no helper to pump the brakes). As it was to late when I finished I didn't dare start him up for a test drive (would annoy the neighbours), so my initial very slow test drive will be tomorrow. I haven't been this excited about a project on him for years.

Once again, ample thanks go to Josh, without whom I would not have had the balls to tackle such a big and serious job.

Lets see how it feels tomorrow !

Edited by Nev, 18 May 2015 - 09:45 PM.

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Good work nev When you getting it on road to test them

[Nev]

Good work nev When you getting it on road to test them

Tomorrow evening mate, I can't wait - I expect I wont be able to sleep tonight! LOL Just the rear brakes to tackle now, if I am lucky these will be easier than the front to do, due to addressing the offset problem by the thickness of the interface bracketry between the hub carrier and new caliper lugs. This will avoid the full day or so it took us to measure and machine up the front spacers.

[hairy]

that is a massive difference in pad area, really hope it works well!

[smiley]

Isn't your front headlight gonna get peddeled to pieces with that hole in the wheelhouse liner?

[Ormes]

Well done Look forward to hearing about the results on the road

[darronwall]

oem Porsche pads are shite

[FLD]

oem Porsche pads are shite

 

Aren't they made by Pagid?

DS2500's are available for the Z17's so might be available for these.