4722 replies to this topic

[CHILL Gone DUTCH]

Sorry just spotted Nevs point about AFR

[Nev]

SS Grades normally implies the way they withstand corrosion as what I was told. 316 for more corrosion/salty conditions, 304 for the rest.

Exhaust gasses are normally 800-900C. 1000C sounds as not great, get your EGT's down. The cast iron exhaust housings of turbo tend to glow red when on full temp.... that hot.

 

Why do you run AFR 11:1 ? Did you monitior your EGT's?

 

I am completely guessing at the exhaust gas temps I'm afraid, based only on observation of the gaskets melting, the wrap melting and knowing that at full chat the amount of fuel (and hence temps) will be relatively high for a 2 litre engine pushing all exhaust through this tiny gap.

 

I don't monitor EGTs (as I implied above).

 

11:1 AFR is only in a very narrow part of the map, usually I dont see it drop below 11.5:1. The guy who mapped it chose the AFRs at that level for safety I imagine.

 

Edited by Nev, 03 July 2016 - 02:03 PM.

[stu8v]

The gasket will have been destroyed due to leaks. If clamped correctly I'm sure it will have been fine.

[steveboyslim]

Nev,

 

Why not build or get built an exhaust system which brings you under the noise limit and does not restrict power, it is not that difficult even with the restricted space of a VX220.

that manifold is all but scrap, see if Nortech will do a deal on a replacement as they now use billet collectors.

321 grade of stainless I am told is the best for manifolds if not using Inconel.

 

Steve

 

[smiley]

 

One of the germans measured near 1000. But that was just after the cilinder head.  

Is this on a sc spec car ?

 

 

SC. Hopefully Ultimate remembers who did that testing, as i can't.  

[smiley]

 

 

One of the germans measured near 1000. But that was just after the cilinder head.  

Is this on a sc spec car ?

 

 

SC. Hopefully Ultimate remembers who did that testing, as i can't.  

 

 

Correction. Turbo conversion, and even peaked to 1100

http://www.speedster...#comment-128229

[joshua]

Nev I wouldn't recommend weld repairing the existing flange, even if stress relieved then skimmed it'll warp around the repair for sure. Should be easy enough to make a jig to allow replacement of the flange in just the original location. Also could you grind the tubes back and use 13mm flange instead of 10mm?

[Nev]

Nev,

 

Why not build or get built an exhaust system which brings you under the noise limit and does not restrict power, it is not that difficult even with the restricted space of a VX220.

that manifold is all but scrap, see if Nortech will do a deal on a replacement as they now use billet collectors.

321 grade of stainless I am told is the best for manifolds if not using Inconel.

 

Steve

 

 

The Nortech one that I've just discovered the crack in has a lifetime warrantee. It should be fixed/replaced under that.

 

I was told that it's tubes were made from 321 steel, however I'm not sure what the GT3 flange is made from, perhaps only 304 or 304L.

 

Edited by Nev, 07 July 2016 - 11:11 AM.

[Nev]

 

 

 

One of the germans measured near 1000. But that was just after the cilinder head.  

Is this on a sc spec car ?

 

 

SC. Hopefully Ultimate remembers who did that testing, as i can't.  

 

 

Correction. Turbo conversion, and even peaked to 1100

http://www.speedster...#comment-128229

 

 

Sounds interesting, any chance of you cut and pasting the posting on here please, their website has a fault and wont let me subscribe.

 

Edited by Nev, 07 July 2016 - 02:23 PM.

[smiley]

Main post is this:

 

Glaubt mir ich wäre froh ich könnte Witze machen..... IAT ist um die 50C° bei diesem Wetter um die 15C°.

 

Bin gerade nochmal bisschen Landstrasse und anschliessend AB gefahren. Sobald ich über 5000U/pm bin 

geht es ab über 1000C° im Schweinsgalopp. Auf der AB im 5ten Gang alles über 160KM/h auch nur Geschwindigkeit halten 

bin ich knapp bei 1000C°. Die Anzeige sollte ganz sein das sie mit dem Prüfstand von Bilas annähernd übereinstimmte.

 

1100C° hatte ich heute auch schon.

[Nev]

Well, bad news.

 

I rang up about the lifetime warrantee on the manifold and talked to Jay (James) at Nortech and he was instantly on the defensive and saying that I must have abused it with heat. He even starting saying thing like my timing must be out and the usual "badly mapped" nonsense for which he clearly has no evidence of knowledge of on my car what-so-ever. Anyway he wriggled and evaded for about 10 minutes on the phone and gave me very bad vibes by being negative, unprofessional and generally sullen and unhelpful.

 

Not once did he admit any sort of apology/acceptance that a failed weld on his manifold might possibly be a fabrication fault. In the end after I badgered him he reluctantly agreed for me to send it to him by post to "look at", though he didn't even once say it might be replaced under the lifetime warrantee.

 

Of course if I did post it to him, it might mysteriously "disappear" once in his hands and then he'd suddenly become "hard to get hold of" and it would probably take a court case to get him to replace it under the warrantee. Also, in this situation I would then not even have the manifold in my hands to put back on to limp the car to an exhaust place to have a new one fitted to a modified downpipe - a situation I don't want to find myself in. Basically we've all unfortunately met these people who don't honour their guarantees and throw as many hurdles for you jump over just to get them to do the right thing.

 

Stuff like this makes me mad, as it is a clear case that the manifold has cracked due to heat/weak welds. The turbo has been fine with the heat for 6 years. The waste gate has been fine for 6 years. The head + valves have been fine with the heat for 6 years. The exhaust pipe has been fine for 4 years.

 

To say the to me that the engine was making too much heat is not a valid argument. The manifold HAS to take the heat - that's it's job and it should be built to do so (just like all the other component list above can). His own invoice even said "for motorsport use only" - well clearly it can't even cope with a road use!

 

Anyway, DO NOT BUY FROM NORTECH PERFORMANCE.

 

Sad and angry Nev.

 

 

Edited by Nev, 09 July 2016 - 08:33 PM.

[jules_s]

TBH Nev

 

That looked like material failure due to stress not a weld failure to me

 

I thought they may take that stance, no help I know

[Doctor Ed]

6 years of flogging the sh*t out of a thermally cycled part doesn't seem too bad to me. And to be honest "Motorsport use only" is the exact opposite of durable and reliable, it means untested and disposable, and 6 years has been a pretty good run imho. You can try all you like for a refund, but generally you're talking about material faults or manufacturing errors. Nothing faulty going on there I reckon. Play nice with the guy, chip in some coin, and just get it fixed?

[Nev]

6 years of flogging the sh*t out of a thermally cycled part doesn't seem too bad to me. And to be honest "Motorsport use only" is the exact opposite of durable and reliable, it means untested and disposable, and 6 years has been a pretty good run imho. You can try all you like for a refund, but generally you're talking about material faults or manufacturing errors. Nothing faulty going on there I reckon. Play nice with the guy, chip in some coin, and just get it fixed?

 

A lifetime warrantee is a lifetime warrantee.

 

Clearly it has a hot time, and should be built to deal with that (obvious) fact. In other words it has to be fit for purpose and if it fails then it should be replaced/fixed. Otherwise, what's the bloody point of a lifetime warantee ?!

 

 

[Nev]

TBH Nev

 

That looked like material failure due to stress not a weld failure to me

 

I thought they may take that stance, no help I know

 

The stress on it is due to heat, it has to be able to cope with heat cycles. If it can't then it cracks.

 

When I took it over to an aerospace welder yesterday (with all the qualifications to work at Aerobus) yesterday he pointed out the thinness of the weld where the widest point of the crack was.

 

Edited by Nev, 09 July 2016 - 09:12 PM.

[Doctor Ed]

Well, good luck with that.

[CocoPops]

Have to say, I kinda agree with Jules and Doctor Ed. Lifetime guarantee in ideal circumstances maybe, but you are not exactly a standard case. Also, if you want "aero grade welding by a certified Airbus employee" then that will be considerably more than you paid, I would hazard a guess. As the above have said, 6yrs is pretty good going considering the envelope you are pushing.

[Nev]

You people are deaf to the words "LIFETIME GUARANTEE".

 

Wake up and learn what your language means. Lifetime means lifetime, not 6 years.

Edited by Nev, 09 July 2016 - 10:37 PM.

[chris_uk]

did they build the manifold to a general specification or did you supply them with a specification to build it to?

[Nev]

did they build the manifold to a general specification or did you supply them with a specification to build it to?

 

I didn't have any control over the spec, "Motorsport use only" is what their invoice says.  

Edited by Nev, 09 July 2016 - 11:09 PM.