4722 replies to this topic

[jules_s]

I seem to recall we had the conversation about 225 fronts a little while back

 

TBH I never got them to the point where I was happy with them. No amount of fettling seemed to stop the feel of oversteer even if it didn't manifest a break away

 

It just felt odd after a while, difficult to explain...like roll but limited if that makes sense? I seemed to recall you felt going that soft would induce squat/lift with Nippers power?

 

 

 

 

[Nev]

I seem to recall we had the conversation about 225 fronts a little while back

 

TBH I never got them to the point where I was happy with them. No amount of fettling seemed to stop the feel of oversteer even if it didn't manifest a break away

 

It just felt odd after a while, difficult to explain...like roll but limited if that makes sense? I seemed to recall you felt going that soft would induce squat/lift with Nippers power?

 

 

 

 

 

Yea, I do remember discussing it with you and your wise man in a field who set it all up for you. My memory is a bit hazy from driving yours, but I do think yours felt softer than mine does at the moment,  possibly due to my front ARB being quite stiff. What ARB do you have - a bespoke one?

 

I haven't really done enough miles yet to get a deep feel for the changes. On the 20 mile trip I did this afternoon it felt really neutral, but I didn't get up to high speed to see what that was like at all.

 

We shall see what happens with the rear squat issue when I install the weaker springs, I am purely experimenting and not sure of the outcome at all, maybe it will squat too much, maybe not, goodness knows.

 

Edited by Nev, 07 November 2016 - 11:19 PM.

[jules_s]

Nah, standard ARB on mine.

 

My only suggestion would be to take it very easy, I wasn't comfortable pushing on after a while, although the overall straightline ride was much better the quicker the corners got the less confidence I had

[Nev]

Have you since changed the setup then? What did you change?

[jules_s]

Sounds odd but after about 1k miles the valving failed, and given time constraints I put some 'standard' 350/450 on

 

I have to say, that whilst I was happy with the so called GT set up I had, I'm happier now back at harder springs. Shame I binned them tbh as you could have had them. They had to be longer on the rears which might well mess with your bump stop issues?

 

 

[Nev]

Wow 350/450 is quite a step up, it's basically how my car was 3 days ago.

 

Shame your valves failed, as I know you spent a lot on that setup :o/

[Nev]

I raised up the front springs by about 12mm this morning (as they had sagged since I installed them) and just took it for a test drive. Initial turn in is really immense now, probably too much as it made me a bit over confident on the cold slimy roads.

 

Edited by Nev, 08 November 2016 - 11:57 AM.

[siztenboots]

i think the changes are from toe , I run 500 front springs and turn in is pretty special

[Nev]

i think the changes are from toe , I run 500 front springs and turn in is pretty special

 

Well, I've tried adjusting toe on the front about 8 times now, everything from +4mm to -4mm per wheel on the front, with 450 Lb, 350 Lb, 225 Lb springs. At the moment with the slightly raised height I will probably have a smidge of toe out still.

 

I just find it hard to imagine that with 500 Lb springs on the front (and presumably even stiffer on the rear) that the hubs will even move vertically by more than 2 or 3 CM even on the hardest corner. Maybe on a smooth track with really warm tyres you can get the initial bite to allow the car to start healing over, but on the undulating surfaces of B-roads you just can't pre-empt what the tarmac quality + camber will be like going round a bend, so getting that initial turn in is important IMO, without it you risk a complete wash out from the front wheels if say there is a dip in the road as you initiate a turn.

 

It would be nice to drive your car Steve, just to see what it's like. Do you still pass by on your way to your sisters... you'd be most welcome to pop by. I should take a look and see if I can lure you here with the prospect of inheriting Nippers bonnet release handle (which I keep forgetting to look at)!

Edited by Nev, 08 November 2016 - 12:45 PM.

[chris_uk]

What are your rear springs ?

[Nev]

What are your rear springs ?

 

Currently 225F/450R, but with a strong front ARB probably adding a good deal to that front poundage.

 

Edited by Nev, 08 November 2016 - 03:35 PM.

[Nev]

Finally got round to getting the wobbly front wheel balanced today, for the grand sum of £8 it has transformed the driving experience. For some reason the wheel was 35 grams out, which is a recurring theme on Nipper for some reason, he seems to need a LOT of wheel balancing.

 

*Note to self: Don't penny pinch when it starts wobbling again !

Edited by Nev, 08 November 2016 - 03:48 PM.

[chris_uk]

Well dont forget that the springs job is to support the cars weight, the arb doesnt help with that, all the arb does is reduce the roll.. You might find that when you really start pushing on it will become apparent that they are too soft and are overwhelmed, or you may find it bites too hard and you start to oversteer, naturally you would want to soften the rear, but in your case it would be to stiffen the fronts. I dare say if you had the older springs on and softened the arb you would get much the same turn in characteristics. Im interested to see how you get on.

[Nev]

Well dont forget that the springs job is to support the cars weight, the arb doesnt help with that, all the arb does is reduce the roll.. You might find that when you really start pushing on it will become apparent that they are too soft and are overwhelmed, or you may find it bites too hard and you start to oversteer, naturally you would want to soften the rear, but in your case it would be to stiffen the fronts. I dare say if you had the older springs on and softened the arb you would get much the same turn in characteristics. Im interested to see how you get on.

 

I think you are right that if/when I am really hammering it, the front might dig in too much and promote oversteer. We shall see over time, i might have to do a late night motorway run with nobody around to see how they cope.

 

I got the current 225 Lb front springs for free (as an experiment), if they are too soft, I will stump up for some circa 275 springs, which would be a 1/2 way compromise between the 225 Lb ones and the old 350 Lb ones.

 

At the moment the 1" ARB is on softest setting, but even on that it is really noticable how much force it transfers across when you jack one side of the car up.

 

Edited by Nev, 08 November 2016 - 03:59 PM.

[siztenboots]

my concern is the mount of dive under braking and the rear going light
 

[Nev]

Hmm, I did notice braking seemed to feel different, again I'd have to test it on a safe wide open and empty road.

 

[Nev]

my concern is the mount of dive under braking and the rear going light
 

 

Jeeze, just imagine the lateral loading on those front wishbones. Fooking frightening when know how paper thin the tubing is.
 

[mbes2]

"i might have to do a late night motorway run with nobody around to see how they cope" Get it on a track nev!

[Nev]

"i might have to do a late night motorway run with nobody around to see how they cope" Get it on a track nev!

 

He he, buy me a new exhaust then, that is guaranteed to pass the noise restrictions. Anyway you can't actually go very fast on tracks as they have a lot of irritating bends to make you nervous

 

I've been to 2 exhaust fabricating places in Bristol and neither were willing to build him a 3.5" exhaust with any sort of guarantee to get the noise down.

 

Hopefully I will make the effort to build one myself this winter, but to be frank I fear starting it as it will be hard and very time consuming, prototyping a silencer that actually works will not necessarily be easy.  

Edited by Nev, 09 November 2016 - 09:25 AM.

[chris_uk]

"i might have to do a late night motorway run with nobody around to see how they cope" Get it on a track nev!

You forget nipper is a traffic light warrior..