4722 replies to this topic

[ChrisS1]

Stage 4 Little Tikes Cozy Coupe by the looks of it.

[ditonics]

Sky blue VX with a white roof in the picture, maybe that's his

[Nev]

Picked the exhaust manifold up from my welder friend tonight. He's done an excellent job, however even with the extra base clamping plate the flange has warped by about 0.5mm, so I'll have to find someone with a linisher tomorrow and grind the face down to a flat.

 

Am keen to get this back on the car tomorrow so I can get out on Sat morning.

 

Edited by Nev, 24 May 2018 - 07:51 PM.

[Nev]

Forgot to say the whole thing cost me £40. Things are so much cheaper when you do them yourself, taking that problem to a garage would quite likely have ended up with a £1500 to £2000 bill as they'd just want to stick a new manifold on (with associated downpipe + oil pipe changes which would be highly problematic due to the 3.5" exhaust).

 

I think in retrospect, I'm quite glad I didn't swap to a v-band flange fitting. I do doubt it's ability to take the stress like the 4 bolt system. I think Mattiboi's advice above helped confirm that decision for me. Thx.

Edited by Nev, 24 May 2018 - 08:06 PM.

[Mattyboi]

The problem V bands have is taking weight, especially if the turbo is hung from it. The load wants to open the V band up and with most normal V bands the thermal expansion rates are miles off the housings and manifold material so they lose clamp load when they heat up (think sharp acceleration after a pootle through a village). This allows the V band "V" segment to deform slightly, which reduces clamp load when everything is up to temp. This then becomes a vicious circle until you get an exhaust leak. You can work around it but it would be expensive and I doubt you'd be able to get the parts from a normal V band supplier. The obvious answer is top mount turbo but then you run into the age old manifold cracking issues.

 

The company I work for also owns Holset Turbochargers and I've been working on that very problem for a while now. Its not worth the effort for a home project.

[siztenboots]

there must be modern glue options to bond , but not take shear loads , the clamping force will do that

[Mattyboi]

Maybe, but its not really worth the effort because you lose the benefits of a V band if you have to spend ages cleaning off glue. Plus you wouldnt trust someone doing a repair to clean the area or reapply it properly.

[Nev]

Phew, had a job interview this morning followed by frantic ringing round a load of engineering shops nearby. Managed to find a local mid sized place and the owner got very friendly once he discovered what I used to do. He let me straight onto the shop floor, handed me a pair of goggles and let me loose on his linisher (somewhat contrary to his H&S + insurance terms I expect)! We got talking afterwards for 5 minutes and I got the feeling he was sizing me up for a job and he refused to take any money off me.

 

Anyway, bolted the manifold back onto the head and then the moment of truth: to line up the 3 hard pipes and hope that they were spot on - ta daa - they were. I gave it 60 seconds of idling to shake it all about about and heat things up a smidge and then nipped up a few bolts.

 

I used an expensive graphite + steel multilayer 2mm gasket this time and brand new 12.9 bolts.

 

Basically it's ready to go, fingers crossed for dry weather tomorrow morning.

Edited by Nev, 25 May 2018 - 03:57 PM.

[Nev]

Maybe, but its not really worth the effort because you lose the benefits of a V band if you have to spend ages cleaning off glue. Plus you wouldnt trust someone doing a repair to clean the area or reapply it properly.

 

I struggle to imagine glue surviving 900+ degrees C surely?

[Nev]

Ooops, forgot to mention I wrapped the manifold again, hopefully this should reduce the amount my bulkhead melts.

[Nev]

I got under the car today and took my stiffened N/S engine mount out and put the new "solid" one in. The stiffened mount that I took out has done about 1000 miles approximately so I inspected it for any tears or signs of weakness, but it looks 100% good. Next time I will swap out the OEM O/S engine mount for the stiffer one. This will give asymmetric stiffness to the side mounts, which is what it needs (based on my videos) and the obvious observation that the gearbox is offset to the side of the car which is what is causing the twist.

 

I have been somewhat concerned about the solid mount, but as I tightened down the top and bottom bolts I could see the PU buldging out with the pressure, which is a good sign. I'm pretty sure the lateral forces of the gearbox will be slightly absorbed by the PU on the outside circumferences. I hope this will still leave a little "flex" in it, which might stop metal fatigue on the threaded bar... we shall see with time. If it does snap it's not a biggy really, I can still easily limp the car home from whereever - there must be quite a few VX220 with ripped mounts driving around every day after all.

 

The other worry is ripping the aluminium at the top of the chassis turret, or possibly the 3 bolts out of the gearbox. The turret seemed pretty solid and thick TBH and is strong due to it's smallish x-section and close sidewalls. The 3 bolts in the F23 can spread the load hopefully...

 

Does anyone else know of anyone who's put solid mounts in a VX220, or any Elise platformed car?

 

Managed to squeeze in a quick run out into the Cotswolds this morning before the rain:

 

 

 

Am off to mid Wales tomorrow morning, I find bank holiday Sunday + Monday mornings the best for traffic as everyone seems to be in bed and the roads are even more deserted than normal. The Met. Office claim it will be dry.

 

Edited by Nev, 27 May 2018 - 04:54 PM.

[Nev]

Gah, foggy as feck here this morning, I can barely see 30 metres - they didn't bother forecasting that!

Edited by Nev, 28 May 2018 - 04:01 AM.

[fezzasus]

Does anyone else know of anyone who's put solid mounts in a VX220, or any Elise platformed car?

 

My biggest concern would be work hardening the chassis mounting points

[Nev]

Hmm, I don't think my new composite graphite gasket is coping, even after just 3 runs and 300 odd miles. I noticed rather a lot of smoke coming out from the joint when I parked up the last time (and the flanges were only dark red). I suspect it's melted as there is a bit of audible gas leakage already, hopefully it won't have welded itself to the flange faces...

 

Have ordered up a couple of stainless ones as they seem to last 9 months and will swap them in when they arrive. I've got the process down to 45 minutes now .

 

Thank goodness I cut that big access hole in the bulkhead to allow me easy access to the turbo area. At the time nobody I knew had done that in a VX and I remember umming and ahhing over it for ages. It must have saved me dozens of hours of labour and now seems to be common place on VXs.

 

Edited by Nev, 29 May 2018 - 05:41 PM.

[Ormes]

Thank goodness I cut that big access hole in the bulkhead

 

It is really handy!!!  Will do on mine one day
 

[Nev]

As my stiffer side engine mounts seem to be working well and are pretty beefy, I've made some moulds and can offer them for sale to the community.

 

Link here: http://www.vx220.org...unts/?p=1954357

 

[Nev]

Went into the garage to swap out the turbo to manifold gasket this afternoon.

 

The picture below is self evident really, the composite material between the 2 steel layers had melted away. Incredible how people have the gaul to make and sell these things, when they only last 1 heat cycle and aren't fit to go on a lawn mower.

 

I've put a single steel ribbed one back in it's place as these usually last 9 to 12 months, perhaps longer with my new stiffer engine mounts. Have put wing nuts on my access hatch bolts to make the process even faster next time!

 

 

Edited by Nev, 31 May 2018 - 03:28 PM.

[chris_uk]

Ive had mine on for years and its still perfectly fine.

[fezzasus]

a lot of commercial gaskets have a pressed metal ring to protect the inner ply of the gasket from exhaust gases. 

 

[Nev]

Had a brilliant run this morning, back home by 6.30 AM having done 140 miles on twisty single carriageway! So refreshing to not hear the "ping" of exhaust leak, instead I could hear the diff whining like an old Morris Minor and the ARB bushes creaking! I really got the bit between my teeth for some reason and was sliding it round the corners in places, having so much fun I didn't remember to get out and take any pics.

 

I think I've come to a decision to switch back to slightly stiffer front springs. Again today I had front of the clam hit the road under severe braking due to nose dive. I prefer the compliancy of the 275 lb springs I have at the front but I think for braking and higher speed the 325 Lb springs I have will be better. Swings and roundabout as usual, in winter the 275 are probably better, but for summer I think the stiffer ones are better. In theory the stiffer front springs should improve speed of turn in too and more aggressive "digging" in (ie slightly more oversteery).

 

The new stiffer side engine mounts are deffo a noticeable improvement, in particular they do stop that secondary "udge" you get when the engine swings about (when braking hard or changing direction fast).

 

Off out again tomorrow morning, trying to recruit a couple of friends to be sociable.

 

 

Edited by Nev, 02 June 2018 - 11:10 AM.