4722 replies to this topic

[Nev]

 

been a long time since I looked at the F23 , but this might help

 

F23 internals

Left to Right: 1st Drive Gear, 2nd Drive Gear, 5th Drive Gear, 3rd Drive Gear, 3-4 synchronizer Assm., 4th Drive Gear.

 

 

 

-Facts to remember are 1st, 2nd, and 5th drive gear are cast as part of the input shaft meaning they always turn with the shaft, 3rd and 4th drive gears only drive at the speed of the input shaft when the synchronizer sleeve (which is splined to the input shaft) is locked into either gear.

 

Next we have the Countershaft.

 

Top to bottom: Countershaft Final Drive, 2nd gear #1 driven, 2-1 synchronizer Assm., 1st gear #1 Driven

 

 

-Facts to remember are, the Countershaft final drive gear is part of the shaft, 1st and 2nd #1 driven gears are only splined to the shaft via the synchronizer being engaged to the gears.

 

And lastly we have the output shaft.

 

Left to Right: Final Drive, Rev final driven, R-5 synchronizer Assm., 5th Final Driven, 3rd Final Driven, 4th Final Driven

 

 

 

-Facts to remember are, the Big gear just to the right of the Final drive gear spins freely on the shaft along with the 5th gear final driven until either is selected with the synchronizer sleeve. 3rd final driven and 4th final driven are part of the output shaft and obviously are always engaged with it.

 

1st Gear: Begins with the first gear from the left on the input shaft. Power is transmitted to the 1st gear #1 driven gear on the countershaft (Big one on the bottom) when the shift fork engages the 1-2 synchronizer into the 1st gear position. The gear is locked to the countershaft and power is transmitted through the shaft to the countershaft final drive which meshes with the second to last gear from the left on the output shaft. From there it turns the final drive gear which of course, turns the differential.

 

2nd Gear: The shift fork on the countershaft moves back out of first gear position and into second. The second gear from the left on the input shaft drives the 2nd gear from the bottom on the countershaft which is now locked to the countershaft via the synchronizer. Again it drives the Countershaft Final drive gear which meshes with the second to last gear on the output shaft transmiting power through the output shaft to the final drive gear, into the diff.

 

3rd Gear: Much simpler then 1st, 2nd, or reverse. 3rd is engaged by sliding the 3-4 synchronizer sleeve toward the left locking 3rd drive gear to the input shaft, this transmits power to the second to the last gear on the output shaft which again, is part of the output shaft, turning the differential.

 

4th Gear: Similar to 3rd the synchronizer sleeve is slid to the right engaging 4th drive gear and locking it to the input shaft. That gear drives the gear furthest to the right on the output shaft which is also part of the output shaft, Driving the output shaft and the differential.

 

5th Gear: 5th Gear is simple like 3rd and 4th however instead of locking the DRIVE gears to the input shaft they are ALWAYS part of the input shaft which means we have to Lock the DRIVEN gears to the output shaft. In this case the biggest gear (3rd in from left) on the input shaft is the drive gear, again note it is part of the shaft. Its mating member on the output shaft rotates freely until we slide the 5-R synchro towards the right. This locks the 5th Driven gear to the output shaft which turns the Final drive gear.

 

Reverse: Reverse is unique in this transmission since it uses 1st gear componants. The power flow moves from the first gear on the left of the input shaft, through the largest gear on the countershaft (which spins freely on the countershaft since the synchronizer is not engaged and it rides on the shaft with a roller bearing) This big gear then drives the Large gear 2nd in from left on the output shaft, but since there is an extra step in the gear train the output rotation is reversed. A good way to look at this is that an odd number of meshing gearsets will allow both input and output shafts to rotate the same direction, an even number of gearsets will allow the input and output shafts to rotate in opposite directions.

 

 

 

Good posting that, will refer to it to understand it all if/when I pull mine apart.

 

[Nev]

Received some more primer for the hardtop yesterday and would like to finish the roof off before I start on the gearbox.

 

I'm currently at the 600 grit stage, a few more sand/fill/primer stages and I think it will be a far better finish than when I hastily prepared it last winter. The key to prepping for paint seems to be patience, a characteristic that I am sorely lacking in.

 

I still don't have a close colour match, even though I was kindly given a can of 28U paint by Ormes and have tried about 3 other random blacks. I think the annoying fact is that if I do the spraying (by can) I will have to accept it won't match well. I suppose I could take it to a paint shop (with the car as well) and ask them to match it visually - does anyone know if I could expect a good outcome?

 

 

Edited by Nev, 06 September 2018 - 06:41 AM.

[vocky]

Perhaps time to revisit just how much work is needed to make a F40 fit? 400 N.m factory rating rather than 230 N.m means it should be much more sturdy.

 

you need to modify the subframe for the F40 to fit
 

[vocky]

plus the vauxhall F40 gearbox still has issues with 2nd gear - if you give it abuse

[ditonics]

Nev you need to take a piece that has the right colour on it to a paint store (not Halfords) and they will colour match it. They will even custom fill aerosol cans for you. If its a decent paint store the colour match should be 100%
On something like a roof panel the results from aerosol cans will be sub par whatever happens. If you have a local independent repair shop, it really wouldn't cost much if you gave them the roof to finish. They will shoot it with 2k from a proper gun.

[Nev]

Nev you need to take a piece that has the right colour on it to a paint store (not Halfords) and they will colour match it. They will even custom fill aerosol cans for you. If its a decent paint store the colour match should be 100%
On something like a roof panel the results from aerosol cans will be sub par whatever happens. If you have a local independent repair shop, it really wouldn't cost much if you gave them the roof to finish. They will shoot it with 2k from a proper gun.

 

Hmm, food for thought.
 

[Nev]

Found this in Germany: https://www.ebay.co....4AAAOSw2cVaoRN~

 

This box has the "mysterious" AW alpha code, which compared to my OEM AF gearbox has a 3.95 FD and a shorter 5th gear.

 

It's tempting to offer £1000 for it. Then all I'd need to do is take the ATB diff out of my old box, swap the brand new crown wheel onto it, shim it and install it in the new box....

 

This would give me the advantages of new everything AND 7% lower 1st to 4th gears, 10% lower 5th gear, which is more or less what I want.

Edited by Nev, 06 September 2018 - 07:29 PM.

[Nev]

Or I could take a punt on this and hope it works: https://www.ebay.co....T4AAOSw7GRZLZz3

 

Would be a pain to fit it and find it's a sh*tter though.

[ditonics]

Has your box actually given up?

[Nev]

Has your box actually given up?

 

Yea I think so, horrible whining sound in 1st gear, and progressivly louder "diff" noises over the last 3 or so years (which might only be due to incorrect shimming and/or worn conical roller bearings that hold the diff).

 

I remember when I swapped the diff over about 7 years ago just how appallingly shagged out the roller bearings were (from just being stage 4 and doing 35k miles). Since then it's done a hell of a lot more miles, with more torque, more revs and more abuse than any F23 was meant to take.

 

The noise in 1st gear is enough to make me want to pull away very gingerly, once in 2nd and above it (strangely) seems happy to take the beans. This might possibly be due to the cog for 1st being worn and not "brushing" correctly, but digging in - apparently this happens once the  hardening is worn on the mating surfaces of the cogs. It's strange that 1st gear has gone, as I very rarely use it in anger.

Edited by Nev, 06 September 2018 - 07:53 PM.

[ditonics]

Any price from the competition transmission place for a rebuild?

[Nev]

Any price from the competition transmission place for a rebuild?

 

Nope, no response yet.
 

[vocky]

Found this in Germany: https://www.ebay.co....4AAAOSw2cVaoRN~

 

This box has the "mysterious" AW alpha code, which compared to my OEM AF gearbox has a 3.95 FD and a shorter 5th gear.

 

It's tempting to offer £1000 for it. Then all I'd need to do is take the ATB diff out of my old box, swap the brand new crown wheel onto it, shim it and install it in the new box....

 

This would give me the advantages of new everything AND 7% lower 1st to 4th gears, 10% lower 5th gear, which is more or less what I want.

 

the price for gearboxes is crazy in Germany, I remember finding a secondhand Alfa M32 and the guy wanted £1500 for it

 

 

[Nev]

I've decided to find & buy a "random" second hand F23 with "AW" markings.Found a bloke in Southampton who has a couple, I might even buy both as they are just £90 each (in case one is unfit for purpose).

 

The AW gearbox has a final drive ratio of 3.95 (instead of my current 3.63), so this will:

 

1. Bring the gear changes in faster.

2. Reduce the top speed down from the current (ludicrous and theoretical !) 210 MPH.

3. Increase torque to the wheels (for the same gear/RPM).

4. Increase wheelspin.

5. Make it easier to stay in the powerband.

6. 5th gear is a shorter ratio than the AF box, so makes 5th more viable for pressing on (rather than just a cruising gear).

 

Point 5 is the main reason I'm swapping ratios. The new box should offer the following on my current tyres (which are 649mm diameter when new):

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Nev, 15 September 2018 - 12:05 PM.

[siztenboots]

what site is that , I was doing something similar on google sheets to plot torque / mph / gear

[Nev]

what site is that , I was doing something similar on google sheets to plot torque / mph / gear

 

http://www.cargister...ator-gear-ratio
 

[ditonics]

Something I've been considering so looking forward to hearing what it's like.

[Nev]

Have finished prepping my hardtop, I think I'll try and find a local bloke to match the paint on my boot lid, as my attempts to match the paint out of a rattle can failed rather badly last time.

 

Also, I forgot to mention the Ferarri I came across this morning, not sure what model it was as I can't tell them apart, but it was a newish one. I left him wondering why his £200k car couldn't keep up - stuff like this make me smile (even if it shouldn't at my age!)

Edited by Nev, 15 September 2018 - 01:18 PM.

[mbes2]

Have finished prepping my hardtop, I think I'll try and find a local bloke to match the paint on my boot lid, as my attempts to match the paint out of a rattle can failed rather badly last time.

Also, I forgot to mention the Ferarri I came across this morning, not sure what model it was as I can't tell them apart, but it was a newish one. I left him wondering why his £200k car couldn't keep up - stuff like this make me smile (even if it shouldn't at my age!)

I'm sure he was happier parking his back in the garage at night

[Nev]

Sheesh, took the week off as a holiday; but it's rained (hard) every day. Was hoping to go touring round Scotland, but it's been dismal up there, not even been able to get out locally. *cry*

 

No response from the 2nd hand gearbox guy either this week. Am currently tempted to buy this brand new F23: at least it will likely last the next 40k miles or so.

 

Hoping to get out on Sat morning, to get my "fix" - 2 weeks without some adrenaline makes me feel like my life is drifting by...

Edited by Nev, 19 September 2018 - 07:08 PM.