4722 replies to this topic

[yaaan]

Just catching up on this and just seen your possible 500+ BHP! Fair play....that should keep you happy for a while Look forward to seeing it out and about soon.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Sounds like you're nearly done.... Any dyno's yet..?

[Nev]

LOL, I tried asking Jon for a preliminary dyno plot (so I could understand the core dynamics (like where peak VE was and how the fuel pump was coping), but understandably he didn't want to provide one for what was a barely correct base map on one of his initial pulls. The poor guy hadn't even had a chance to setup the fuel and ignition tabs and was working late into the evening for me. I expect the map has yet to go back and forth from Stephan and CS quite a few more times. Also, I have yet to make a decision on exactly how much power I want out of the thing, based on feedback from Jon and how the engine naturally settles. Having said that, 500 odd BHP with just 1.5 bar of boost sounds approximately right (perhaps a little to powerful), though I am going to rely on Jon taking it out for an extended test drive to get feedback to see whether he thinks it drivable. TBH, I hadn't expected the engine to be so super efficent and running just 1.5 bar (to achieve the top end of my desired power level) is quite a bit below what I had expected. I know Steve (Siztenboots) will roast me for it, but Im quite chuffed with making this much power at such low boost. This means my CC is more than likely to be able to cope with cooling the inlet charge as the boost is so low and hence the ACTs will be lowish.

[Nev]

Poop. I just rang Jon and apparently my clutch is slipping even though they think theyv'e managed to drop the torque down from 450 ft/lb. This is bloody irritating really, as the Helix clutch cover and plate should really be able to take this sort of torque. I replaced them both 2 years ago and I inspected the them carefully prior to installation, both looked fine and the flysheel was too. I am now faced with possibly having to get a bespoke clutch cover made which has actually got enough strength. It might be that Stephan has something meatier, hopefully Jon can ask him. Either way this is gonna turn into yet another big bill as I can't even do the work myself with the car over in Norfolk. Fed up.

Edited by Nev, 21 June 2011 - 12:02 PM.

[The Batman]

that would have been on the list of new parts if it was me nev

[techieboy]

Is the gearbox itself going to be able to cope with that kind of torque? Thought the F23 was only "officially" rated to 230ft/lb. Clearly we've been pushing past that for some time but this is a huge leap into the unknown.

[siztenboots]

about 400 ft-lb at 7000rpm gives you a healthy 530bhp

[mbes2]

29 pages on this post.... ive read most, but might of missed it, but what brakes are you running Nev?

[siztenboots]

29 pages on this post.... ive read most, but might of missed it, but what brakes are you running Nev?

parachute plus ejector seat

[Sticky]

29 pages on this post.... ive read most, but might of missed it, but what brakes are you running Nev?

parachute plus ejector seat

Very good.

[Nev]

that would have been on the list of new parts if it was me nev

Why Joe? The clutch cover should be fine, after all its just pressed metal that never gets worn and wasn't blued at all from heating. The friction material on the plate was plenty thick enough too, in fact I could hardly tell it wasn't new apart from all the dust.

I think Stephan had a clutch made specially by Sachs and rated to 720 NM (ie 530 ft/lb). I fear I may need one of these, I dread to think of the cost

Techie: I think the gearbox can take it for a bit, so long as I drive sympathetically, ie only use WOT in 4th and 5th gear.

MBES2: My brakes are just groved discs and Mintex 1144s.

[The Batman]

i dunno about you but i would have had doubt in it being able to handle that much torque.... therefore i would have changed it for peace of mind

[Sticky]

I think the gearbox can take it for a bit, so long as I drive sympathetically, ie only use WOT in 4th and 5th gear.

Sympathetic? After all this work surely unsympathetic on occasion would be good

[techieboy]

Techie: I think the gearbox can take it for a bit, so long as I drive sympathetically, ie only use WOT in 4th and 5th gear.

Fingers crossed. They definitely used to build these boxes strong.

Guess the next option after that is a six speed M32 conversion but, even that would be way out of spec given some of your projected numbers.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

500 BHP, 400+lb/ft of torque. Sod the clutch and gearbox. Going this deep into uncharted territory are the drive shafts and CVs up to the job, how on earth will the tyres cope with that much grunt, traction will be a big issue when the boost comes on. Good on you Nev, I for one cannot wait to see how this goes, I would imagine it will be like driving the Pikes Peak Suzuki on Gran Tourismo.

[Nev]

Yea, its bloody frustrating to get held back by so called 'uprated' parts limitations. Why Helix can make their clutch cover 4 mm thicker and hence twice as stiff I don't know. Whats the point of an 'uprated item' if it gives up the ghost at just 200% over OEM setup? I paid a bloody fortune for it and expect it to work. On a slightly more positive note, Stephan must have had this problem, I am hoping Jon can talk to him and get an part number on his clutch setup in the 'Yellow Peril'. Cliffie: The driveshafts are very meaty, though not sure about the CV joints. The weak point may be the final drive spine in the gearbox, tha looked a little thinner than I would have liked. It's all so frustrating, as the car is so close to working and Im clearly keen to drive it.

Edited by Nev, 21 June 2011 - 02:43 PM.

[TazN]

I would imagine it will be like driving the Pikes Peak Suzuki on Gran Tourismo.

Shudders

Here's to a speedy sort out Nev! This project deserves it, fantastic.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Yea, its bloody frustrating to get held back by so called 'uprated' parts limitations. Why Helix can make their clutch cover 4 mm thicker and hence twice as stiff I don't know. Whats the point of an 'uprated item' if it gives up the ghost at just 200% over OEM setup? I paid a bloody fortune for it and expect it to work.

On a slightly more positive note, Stephan must have had this problem, I am hoping Jon can talk to him and get an part number on his clutch setup in the 'Yellow Peril'.

Cliffie: The driveshafts are very meaty, though not sure about the CV joints. The weak point may be the final drive spine in the gearbox, tha looked a little thinner than I would have liked.

It's all so frustrating, as the car is so close to working and Im clearly keen to drive it.

200% over stock is a lot to ask, even on uprated items Nev. You are in uncharted waters here and with anything like this, it is development all the way, just ask NickB777.

In my old days with tuning the old style Mini we really pushed the envelope turbo charging and pushing over 200 BHP and 220 LB/FT and we had to fabricate our own drive shafts as we were twisting splines as well as developing a replacement for the in-board CVs as we were shattering them. We also had to change the internals of the gear box to straight cut gearing and diff to cope with the extra power.

Sadly when you go beyond what is available this is where you end up as nobody has had to develop these parts and bring them to market. I do feel your frustrations.

I want this to work as much as you do

[ChrisS1]

Would it be worth talking to Chris Randall as his Europa race car runs the same drivetrain and engine doesnt it? Extended hard use might well have highlighted weaker and stronger areas.

[siztenboots]

randy has a M32 gearbox, dual mass flywheel