4722 replies to this topic

[techieboy]

I meant see if they'll let you DIY it there. It wont be the first garage that have let somebody do that.

[vocky]

the M32 vxr clutch is bigger than the F23

I would ask jon if you can help swap the clutch and have a reduced labour bill

must start swapping box's instead of sc conversions

(note this not is a joke i hate love gearboxes and everything associated with them) don't bother speaking to vocky he won't be interested

edited that for you J+L Performance (gearbox specialists)

Edited by vocky, 21 June 2011 - 06:58 PM.

[Nev]

Oh man, Im on my 4th pint of beer and I still feel sober ! What to do... what to do... Would they really let me on thier shop floor and drop my box out DIY and replace the clutch cover ?!

Edited by Nev, 21 June 2011 - 07:03 PM.

[techieboy]

Would they really let me on thier shop floor and drop my box out DIY and replace the clutch cover ?!

Maybe. Got to be worth an ask. You might need to sign up as a Courtenaysport apprentice for the day though to make sure their insurance is okay.

Try a 5th pint. Doctors orders.

[KurtVerbose]

Try a 5th pint. Doctors orders.

No, move on to the Whiskey!

Nev, be honest. If you'd been offered an easy +500bhp and no engine problems but a slipping clutch 2 weeks ago would you have been happy?

You've reached a stunning achievement with your car, and you know you have also.

[Nev]

Thanks Kurt, that means double from you, after the infamous 'Lambo' thread My g/f has just come back from work and shes confused why I am drunk ! LOL, poor thing, she has no idea... !

[KurtVerbose]

Thanks Kurt, that means double from you, after the infamous 'Lambo' thread

My g/f has just come back from work and shes confused why I am drunk ! LOL, poor thing, she has no idea... !

If you read the lambo thread you'll find I actually agreed with you. It was on the speed thread that you left the commedy door open for me and I couldn't resist walking through. I thought you'd see the funny side of it because that's how it was intended.

Anyway, I've always followed this thread and your website with interest and some admiration. Maybe I come to you for that spare engine as my standard 200bhp is way inadequate.

[Nev]

Would they really let me on thier shop floor and drop my box out DIY and replace the clutch cover ?!

Maybe. Got to be worth an ask. You might need to sign up as a Courtenaysport apprentice for the day though to make sure their insurance is okay.

Try a 5th pint. Doctors orders.

LOL, being a CS apprentice has to be better than my current job - writing code for numpties who have no idea of it's complexity and intricate nuances.

Thanks for all your support and advice guys, it's genuinely heartwarming. I guess we really are all in the same club.

[vocky]

I'm sure Jon would be glad of the help, they have so much work and so little time

[slindborg]

Is the gearbox itself going to be able to cope with that kind of torque? Thought the F23 was only "officially" rated to 230ft/lb. Clearly we've been pushing past that for some time but this is a huge leap into the unknown.

IF the bollocks 'rumours' about GM's torque limits are right then it would be 230Nm of sustained torque (WTF that means)....

I dont buy it for one second as the F10 and F13 (and early F15) gearboxes contained the same mechanical internals (bar ratios), yet were rated upto 50NM differently...... yeah right. Its just a numbering system.

New, why not got for a 3-4 plate clutch which only needs a SMF. Infact a DMF on an M32 wont gain you a 2nd clutch plate either With the right setup it should be beautifully driveable on the road.

[NickB787]

I'm sure Jon would be glad of the help, they have so much work and so little time

worth an ask, would be easier than dragging it back to your place again if needed could you do it under one of those car tents outside the workshop?

[Exmantaa]

Curious to you flywheel too... Think you have a (steel?) lightened one with 6 of those standing pillars, right? Remember that the BIG power C20LET guys (Germany) hat trouble with these kind of lightened flywheels and they could only hold the power with standard pot type cast flywheels. It was said they "bend" a bit... Something to research.

Edited by Exmantaa, 21 June 2011 - 10:02 PM.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

randy has a M32 gearbox, dual mass flywheel

Are you sure about that....? I thought he was on an F23.

Either way, he's got a bombproof Z20LET pushing similar power! If you have problems getting the power down Nev, come see me I've got some ideas that should help....

[Nev]

Randy runs an M32 greabox and single plate clutch (with a Sachs clutch cover if I remember correctly). I think my flywheel is the Courtenay steel billet lightweight one. And yes, it sticks up on the 6 mounting pillars. I might ask them to see if Stephan think this might be bending, thanks for the tip Exmanta. I am sure the F23 can take way more than 230 ft/lb of torque, for a start in my old engine it handled 345 ft/lb for tens of thousands of miles. I think Stephan is still using an F23 though I heard a rumour that he'd broken a couple. Im not keen on working in the rain outside Courtenys TBH, the options are to either get them to do it or drive it back to bristol and do at my leisure in my comfy warm, roomy garage. I went into the empty garage last night while drunk, it looked so wierd without a car in pieces in it... very odd. Jimmy, whats your plan on making my car less powerful, taking my turbo off and giving it to you ?! PS: I have a nasty hangover this morning

Edited by Nev, 22 June 2011 - 07:31 AM.

[siztenboots]

nev, do you have adjustable boost control on yours. would it be sensible getting to know the new setup , put some miles on it get more running data , but still with massive torque while you research next steps maybe?

[Vespa]

this is why you need a couple of spare engines and gearboxes to muck about with, strip down, teach yourself bits.

I think the interesting part is the tubular manifold to see how much that has contributed to performance and your ideas on packaging the turbo and its ancillaries, plus all the silly bespoke bits like supporting brackets hoses etc.

My own progress has slowed, but thats because I'm moving away from motronic 1.5.5 and doing my own thing with trionic7 and trying to reuse as much GM parts bin stuff from various cars and engines. The benefit of this will be a lot of plug and play pay back for 2.0L Zlet and B204 , 2.2L Z22SE, Z20NET and 2.3L B234/5 engine conversions with turbo and SC all covered.

I don't think there is much I don't know about the Z20LET now but I have no idea about the Saab sharable parts. Any solid info you can give the community about interchangable parts would be really useful to others I am sure. I think Vespa was thinking of building a Saab engine up for his car. I am sure that using cheaper and more robust Saab parts (end ECU) for a hybrid Vaux/Saab engine would be appealing. Its just that someone (ie you!) has to go through the pain of the learning curve

I think my tubular manifold has contributed a lot to the dynamics of the flow. Not just becuase it is tubular and scavenges correctly, but because the primaries are narrow (just 34mm I/D), the merge collector is neat and points at the flange correctly and the gases flow round relatively wide circumferance bends. I noticed (with glee) that while running the engine in, that the turbo starts to spool at just 2000 revs, once its fully mapped it might even start spooling below this. This was a design that I wanted, the speedy spool is a compromise and is more important than out and out power gained by having wide primaries. I remeber doing all the maths based on David Vizzards book, though I've forgotten it all now.People who drone on about big turbos causing lag are just a bit under-educated I think, if you design your engine + exhaust setup correctly there really shouldn't be much (if any) lag penalty in fitting a mid sized turbo like I have.

Yup I am definitely I treated in the Saab compatibility with the z20let. Or if indeed a straight (ish) swap is possible. As I'm stuck in another country for a while I'm happy to let someone else do all the R&D and then poach the info later I might even have your old engine off you Nev!

[Nev]

nev, do you have adjustable boost control on yours. would it be sensible getting to know the new setup , put some miles on it get more running data , but still with massive torque while you research next steps maybe?

Well, I don't have any 'official' boost control, but I could simply take disconnect the 4mm signal pipe that leads from the amal valve to the wastegate. If I do this (which is a very easy 2 minute job) it means the turbo will make max of 0.5 bar of boost (which is set by the physical spring inside the wastegate). This would limit power to around 380 BHP I guess. However, though it's a good idea on the outset there is the worry that the wastegate will perish quickly as it is handling so much boost all the time. Also the pipe leading to/from the wastegate is only 44mm (it's a 44mm Tial wastegate) and might not be big enough to flow 80% of the turbos boost which it was never intended to do.

It would be lovely to let little 'Vespa' re-use some of 'Nipper's' old engine parts

Just got back from hospital (had a pre-op examination) today. I am having my ankle opened up again on 5th July to take the metal out and clean the joints, so wont be able to drive after that for a fair bit while it recovers. Hopefully I will get this all sorted before then so I can at least drive the car a couple of days prior to going in for the operation.

[Zoobeef]

So many up and downs nev. Hope the next op and nippers clutch change go ok.

[steveboyslim]

There are plenty of manufacturers who can supply a clutch which is able to take the torque from yhis engine and alot more, apart from the purchase cost which would need a new flywheel, one of their biggest problems is the are not nice to use in a road car. I am talking about a 7 1/4 (184mm) twin plate clutch. You would probably need to get one made to suit the crank bolt pattern, which would not be difficult and made correctly from the right material will not give any trouble (If the Germans have had trouble with their steel flywheels then they have been made wrong) Steve

[Nev]

Clutch debacle has now been solved.


Sadly it will be at least 3 weeks before I get to see Nipper though