4722 replies to this topic

[VXT Tim]

That pressure plate must be mighty as there doesn't look anywhere near enough material to stick 500 odd lbft (or whatever it was)

Edited by VXT Tim, 08 October 2011 - 10:30 AM.

[Nev]

Damn it, everything has come to a halt because I have foolishly snapped a bolt by over tightening it.

[Zoobeef]

Damn it, everything has come to a halt because I have foolishly snapped a bolt by over tightening it.

Bolts that snap when tightening up are waaaaay easier to undo than when they snap undoing. Drill and some easy outs or tap it round with a chisel or put a slot in it and screwdriver it.
The machine shop wont have any probs though. Worth getting 6 new bolts if your going to have to get 1 anyway?

[Nev]

Bolts that snap when tightening up are waaaaay easier to undo than when they snap undoing. Drill and some easy outs or tap it round with a chisel or put a slot in it and screwdriver it.
The machine shop wont have any probs though. Worth getting 6 new bolts if your going to have to get 1 anyway?

It was heavily torqued up when the head of the bolt sheared off the threaded part. The remaining threaded part is not easy to get at either as it snapped about 7mm down in the hole. It will need drilling out carefully I think.

You are right that I need new bolts all round, they were only grade 8.8 steel, bloody useless. I need to get some 10.8 or better, though they really only need to take 25 NM on a standard clutch. As mine is a heavily beefed up unit, I was applying about 50 NM - hence it broke.

Can anyone confirm if they are 6mm or 7mm - every time I measure them they seem different

Edited by Nev, 08 October 2011 - 05:02 PM.

[Nev]

That pressure plate must be mighty as there doesn't look anywhere near enough material to stick 500 odd lbft (or whatever it was)

TBH, it looks jolly similar to the Helix one. I guess the hardening process (which is invisible) must be where the difference lies. The sach fingers seem a little closer together as well, which may help, as there is more material pressing onto the plate.

My engine only pushes out 400 ft/lb anyway, much more than that would require fatter tyres and wheels which I'm not keen on splashing out on, as i need to stop spending money (and time!) on this project. Hopefully this will be the last time I have to do anything on the car for a few thousand miles (or more hopefully).

[VXT Tim]

Can you not use something like this? http://www.machinema...ctor-wrench-set

[steveboyslim]

Nev, just had a quick read of your last post on the blog. If you suspect that oil is passing up the bolt threads using 243 probably won't fix the problem. As i'm sure you know it's only a threadlock, at work we use a Loctite 577 on threads that are going into oilways etc as it's a sealant.


I'm guessing the flywheel bolts don't already come with threadlock/patchlock on them? Obviously they'd need some applied, might be an idea to put some on them and let it dry overnight. Then add some 577 when you fit the bolts to try and hold back the oil?

The only other one you could look at is Loctite 572 this is a liquid ptfe, but i think the 577 might be a better choice.

Loctite data sheet lists 243 as thread lock and thread sealer.
243 works fine if used in the correct quantity and eveything is cleaned and de-greased(oil removed) with a brake cleaner type product.

Steve

[Lps]

Loctite data sheet lists 243 as thread lock and thread sealer.
243 works fine if used in the correct quantity and eveything is cleaned and de-greased(oil removed) with a brake cleaner type product.

Steve

Not sure what data sheet you're reading from fella but 243 is only a threadlock AFAIK

Loctite 243

Loctite 243 medium strength threadlocker, suitable for all metal threaded assemblies, Breakaway torque 26Nm

http://www.loctite.c...D=1000000I81L#a





Not a sealant unlike 577

http://www.loctite.c...UID=1000000IY7U

[Lps]

Can anyone confirm if they are 6mm or 7mm - every time I measure them they seem different

Be surprised if they are M7 tbh Nev, most clutch plates are M6.

Normally only find M7 on Jap motorbikes & some French manifold studs oddly.

Although going out to M7 (if you can get the bolts) might give you the oomph needed if you want to torque them down a bit more than standard.

[Nev]

Incidentally, I rang up Courtenay's and they said they only use a standard threadlock themselves and have never had an issue. When I removed the flywheel today after installing it with liberal amounts of threadlock, I noticed that loads of white power came out with each of the ARP bolts. Last time this didnt happen, indicating that I simply didnt use enough threadlock. Though I understand what your saying Lee, Loctite 577 sounds better at sealing fluids hermitically. I have just bought a big bottle of Loctite 243 off eBay and might buy some 577 too, though it's locking ability might be compomised which would lead to rather sever problems if the fly bolts came out. I am at a lose end as usual, wish I had another project to work on... am currently looking at grassracing buggies on eBay as a sideline!

[Lps]

lol pm coming your way mate

[steveboyslim]

Loctite data sheet lists 243 as thread lock and thread sealer.
243 works fine if used in the correct quantity and eveything is cleaned and de-greased(oil removed) with a brake cleaner type product.

Steve

Not sure what data sheet you're reading from fella but 243 is only a threadlock AFAIK

Loctite 243

Loctite 243 medium strength threadlocker, suitable for all metal threaded assemblies, Breakaway torque 26Nm

http://www.loctite.c...D=1000000I81L#a





Not a sealant unlike 577

http://www.loctite.c...UID=1000000IY7U

If you look at http://www.loctite.c...ocking-4476.htm gives a summary of the product do, under the threadlocking title, Key characteristics of threadlockers, fourth one down 'Locks and seals all threads'.
Also if you phone/e-mail they will confrim.
If you click on 243 it opens to the same page you linked.

Steve

[Lps]

If it was a sealant i'd think they'd put it in the Thread Sealing section rather than the Threadlocking.

Yes 243 is a threadlocker with improved oil tolerance but for Nevs particular application it's obviously not up to the job in hand. By only using threadlock the bolt thread still has a (albeit microscopic) air gap. This is why i'd think a propper sealant is what's needed also, an anaerobic thread sealant which "fills" the gap if you like and cures in the absence of air. Apologies if i sound like i'm trying to make you suck eggs so to speak.

Difference of opinions/understanding maybe mate but if you look:

Loctite 243

Technical Information

Applications Thread Sealing and Threadlocking > Threadlocking

Loctite 577

Technical Information

Applications Thread Sealing and Threadlocking > Thread Sealing

[steveboyslim]

If it was a sealant i'd think they'd put it in the Thread Sealing section rather than the Threadlocking.

Yes 243 is a threadlocker with improved oil tolerance but for Nevs particular application it's obviously not up to the job in hand. By only using threadlock the bolt thread still has a (albeit microscopic) air gap. This is why i'd think a propper sealant is what's needed also, an anaerobic thread sealant which "fills" the gap if you like and cures in the absence of air. Apologies if i sound like i'm trying to make you suck eggs so to speak.

Difference of opinions/understanding maybe mate but if you look:

Loctite 243

Technical Information

Applications Thread Sealing and Threadlocking > Threadlocking

Loctite 577

Technical Information

Applications Thread Sealing and Threadlocking > Thread Sealing

We can agree to disagree.
577 is under the sealant section with a low breakaway torque and it's main function is thread sealer.
As it clearly states on their web site that loctite thread lockers seal all types of thread, so it will stop the bolts from comming loose and seal the thread if used correctly.
Loctite reccomend it for thread locking and thread sealing, I asked the direct question as I wanted to find the correct locker/thread sealer fof my fuel pressure regulator.
Vauxhall/GM sell the equivalant 243 (it is blue in colour and smells the same)in their own packaging over the counter at the main dealers, for that very purpose of sealing and locking flywheel and other bolts.

Steve

[Lps]

all this Loctite talk Steve makes us both sound like freaks! Nev, put an end to it and just sling some 638 on the buggers, trust me, they'll NEVER come out with that on it! Some manufacturers don't even bother using threadlock on the flywheel bolts Although if i were in Nevs shoes i'd be sticking 243 on them too, definately. You're correct in saying loctite thread lockers seal all types of thread. It's just how resistant they are to particular fluids. It's just if the oil is creeping passed it like he thinks it is, the only alternative i can think of is to use something that is more tolerant to contaminants which sadly 243 isn't the best at doing. The downside is 577 isn't a threadlocker so yes, low break torque, but loose bolts aren't the issue. Which is why erring on the safe side i still think using both could be the answer?

[Nev]

Considering how much fluid I intend to put in the bolt holes and bolt threads this time, I don't think there is any chance they leak again. My flywheel should be back on Tues and if I'm not too lazy I should have the car up and running by the weekend. I'm so used to taking the engine + box in and out of the car, it's not really a big deal any more. I have also inspected and modified a few bits and bobs while the engine is out: 1/ Hopefully my new bypass valve setup will cope with the boost better, though I fear I may have to install an extra one as it's little 25mm opening can't vent the boost fast enough. 2/ I have re-wrapped some bits of the exhaust manifold. 3/ Adjusted some inlet pipes to be further way from the hot areas and lagged them with B&Q heat shielding !

[Nev]

Am collecting the flywheel tonight and feeling keen to get Nipper back on the road ASAP, so might be stuck in the garage until midnight (or whenever my girlfriend starts to wonder where I am )

[Lps]

Fingers crossed this time then Nev!

[Nev]

Phew, did loads tonight in just 3 hours thanks to help from my girlfriend. First got the flywheel and clutch cover on with help/supplies from Lee. Then swung the the engine an gearbox back into the chassis and fixed up all the engine mounts and a few pipes and wires. I reckon another 3 or 4 hour stint like that and little Nipper will be up and running again I need to bleed the clutch first, just to check the slave cylinder isn't leaking though.

[VXT Tim]

Weather is supposed to be nice til next week now, perfect for a few weekend miles.