4722 replies to this topic

[Nev]

1. Rather expensive. 2. They have set angles/size/shapes for a confined space that may be hard to fit. 3. The join internal lips will cause more of a restriction to flow that a smooth pipe (as it is now). Having said that, until I stick my head in there and remind myself of the space it's hard to know what parts I will use (or even if my supposition of a problem is correct)!

[Thealastair34]

Quip is cheap from torques on eBay, and you can run larger than the drain at moment I doubt it alot compard to the rest of the build! Good luck!

[The Batman]

Well worth the expense if it solves the problem and proves to be reliable

[Arno]

If this is the case then it's virtually certain to be the seals. I've ordered a restrictor off eBay - hopefully it will fit correctly and I can actually get access to the part on top of the turbo to get it fitted.

Is your turbo a ball-bearing unit or a sleeve-bearing? Ball bearing units normally tend to need a flow restrictor to the turbo as the oil is not used (like in a sleeve-bearing) to 'float' the turbine and provide the spacing.

Sleeve bearing units should normally run such close tolerances (like main crank bearings) that they restrict flow themselves and pressure is usually not an issue.

For the return feed I'd personally have a lenght of steel pipe (perhaps attach to the turbo with a banjo bolt connection) made up to fit with a very short rubber connection on the block end to take up any thermal expansion. Turbo-block relation should be pretty much fixed anyway.. Some bracketry/webbing on the pipe to stop vibration fatigue may be needed, but it has the advantage that it can't kink ever and it's fully heat and aging resistant.. (it's what OEM's often do in these conditions.. go to hard lines..)

Bye, Arno.

[cnrandall]

As Arno said, you need a restrictor with a BB turbo, the bearings only need a mist of oil. Pressure relief valve caps the oil pressure regardless of rpm.

[Nev]

I have one on order thx guys. I think the RPM is relevant as the oil pressure is dependant on the mechanical gears of the oil pump. In my case, becuase I have spring loaded under piston jets I get a wierd scenario that it smokes upto approx 2500 RPM, then the oil pressure is enough to open the springs on the jets and suddenly drops, meaning the smoking then stops until about 4000 RPM !

[Nev]

For the return feed I'd personally have a lenght of steel pipe (perhaps attach to the turbo with a banjo bolt connection) made up to fit with a very short rubber connection on the block end to take up any thermal expansion. Turbo-block relation should be pretty much fixed anyway.. Some bracketry/webbing on the pipe to stop vibration fatigue may be needed, but it has the advantage that it can't kink ever and it's fully heat and aging resistant.. (it's what OEM's often do in these conditions.. go to hard lines..)

When I installed the turbo I tried to adapt the OEM metal pipe, but it wasn't possible due to the new angles caused by the new position of the turbo. I am tempted to buy a metal (brass) 135 degree or 90 degree elbow and splice it into the centre of the existing blue rubber pipe to alleviate the problem. So far today I've been too lazy to crawl under the car though !

Edited by Nev, 26 January 2013 - 06:08 PM.

[MrSimba]

Have a word with Dave Hardwick Nev, he fabricated an alloy 90' with a reducer to match with the different diameters from turbo to block If it was not so cold I'd drop the tray & take a pic for you!!!

[steveboyslim]

I have one on order thx guys.

I think the RPM is relevant as the oil pressure is dependant on the mechanical gears of the oil pump. In my case, becuase I have spring loaded under piston jets I get a wierd scenario that it smokes upto approx 2500 RPM, then the oil pressure is enough to open the springs on the jets and suddenly drops, meaning the smoking then stops until about 4000 RPM !

The oil jets do not operate like that , they have a pressure releif valve in them so their opening is gradual, also thay are fully open at that rpm and the oil pump valve is nearly on bypass.
I would go for a maximium diameter straighter oil return pipe followed by an oil restrictor in the turbo oil feed.

Steve

[cnrandall]

For the return feed I'd personally have a lenght of steel pipe (perhaps attach to the turbo with a banjo bolt connection) made up to fit with a very short rubber connection on the block end to take up any thermal expansion. Turbo-block relation should be pretty much fixed anyway.. Some bracketry/webbing on the pipe to stop vibration fatigue may be needed, but it has the advantage that it can't kink ever and it's fully heat and aging resistant.. (it's what OEM's often do in these conditions.. go to hard lines..)

When I installed the turbo I tried to adapt the OEM metal pipe, but it wasn't possible due to the new angles caused by the new position of the turbo. I am tempted to buy a metal (brass) 135 degree or 90 degree elbow and splice it into the centre of the existing blue rubber pipe to alleviate the problem. So far today I've been too lazy to crawl under the car though !

I would remove as much rubber as possible... As/when you hit the track you'll find it doesn't last that well. I bought a steel flange from ebay and then fabricated a steel pipe with a flexi close to the block, as steve says, @ maximum diameter. Also, I would run a compression and leak down test, just in case blow-by is exacerbating your problems. If oil is moving from the turbo core to the turbine housing there has to be a pressure delta.

[Nev]

As for hitting the track, I don't think that is likely any more as my latest exhaust pipe is even noisier than the last one (just from listening to it) - very disappointing as that was it's main aim. The standard exit from the turbo is a 5/8" (AN -10) and thus so is the current rubber pipe. Can anyone remember the thread size of the pipe end that goes into the block BTW - is it M18 x 1.5 thread? As for compression test, hmmm, if these 2 mods don't fix it then that will be the next likely culprit, though I sincerely hope it isn't that, as the engine is only 6000 miles old.

Edited by Nev, 27 January 2013 - 07:49 AM.

[Boombang]

If it didn't do it before, but does it now, what has actually changed apart from the increased mileage? Did it do it before the exhaust fitting? If not is worth having a look at what might have been disturbed / knocked / crushed / bent during the exhaust fitting.

[steveboyslim]

As for hitting the track, I don't think that is likely any more as my latest exhaust pipe is even noisier than the last one (just from listening to it) - very disappointing as that was it's main aim.

The standard exit from the turbo is a 5/8" (AN -10) and thus so is the current rubber pipe. Can anyone remember the thread size of the pipe end that goes into the block BTW - is it M18 x 1.5 thread?

As for compression test, hmmm, if these 2 mods don't fix it then that will be the next likely culprit, though I sincerely hope it isn't that, as the engine is only 6000 miles old.

M18 x 1.5 is correct.
I quick rolling road run with extra boost via a bleed valve without the correct fuel and ignition values would be enough to damage the pistons (melt or break the ring lands) although that is unlikley as the engine would smoke more and breath more.

Steve

[completechip]

We unfortunately experience same problem...oil leak at turbo seals...my turbo had no oil restrictor before I rebuilt the head. Once I installed back the head, first start brought first oil leak, on exhaust side, and very little leak on compressor side. I installed a self made 1mm restrictor, well, oil does not get into the exhaust anymore, or I cannot see it as it instantly burns, but still have oil on compressor side. Good thing is that oil pressure inside the engine has significantly increased, engine is less noisy, so you might also experience this once you install the restrictor. I contacted the guy who repaired my damaged compressor blades on this GT3071, he told me to also check the air filter in order to not be restrictive, as increased suction on intake side will pull oil from turbo core through the oil seal - it sounds plausible. I suspect my problem is the oil return pipe, which is badly shaped and I think this causes pressure on oil return and oil leak. Will check it once I take the engine apart. My valve seals are gone and I have no smoke at cold start. They are so damaged that oil leaks into the exhaust manifold. So take this into consideration, as far as I understand and I already told you, it is possible that high rpm pops the valve seals out of their place. Sorry to hear about these problems, Nev.

[siztenboots]

what grade oil do you both use?

[completechip]

10W60 Castrol Edge

[Nev]

I use 10w60 too.

[siztenboots]

same here gulf 10w60 , we all use the same oil pump , I run standard oil cooler setup , no oil squirters etc, std internals, no balancer shafts, k04 turbo

[Nev]

Oh dear, bad news today. I fitted the turbo oil pressure restrictor, started the car up and the smoke resumed once the car warmed up thus indicating it is not the turbo seals failing. Also, i inspected the turbo oil gravity drain and this is not kinked (as I had previous thought it might be) and should be flowing nicely. Smoke is coming out of the exhaust and billowing out from the engine bay/block itself I think, though it is almost impossible to isoloate where exactly. Additionally, a puddle of oil appeared under the sump. I inspected where this was coming from and it was squeezing out of the lower sump gasket. The sump bolts are tight, so maybe the bottom half of the engine is in positive pressure, causing the oil to squirt out. I have checked the water in the header tank and that has correct level of water and no oil/mayonaise in it. I also inspected the gauze of the cam cover breather. This had a small amount of mayonaise on it, but was breathing out a bit whilst the car idled, thus also indicating possible positive crank/cam case pressure Thus, my suspicions are now either HGF or piston ring failure; hopefully the former (as it's not an engine out job). I think I have a compression tester somewhere in the garage, but couldn't face digging it out and using it. *sob* Maybe if I am really lucky it might just be a few head stud nuts have comes lose. One strange thing (which might be a clue to some boffin on here), is that there is no smoke at all for the first 2 or 3 minutes whilst the engine is cold, i.e. the smoke only starts once it warms up a bit. Also, I think the problem has been progressively getting worse over time (maybe the last 500 miles), rather than being a sudden issue.

Edited by Nev, 02 February 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[siztenboots]

anything out the pcv pipe?