153 replies to this topic

[Winstar]

I've also posted my data.

What data?

[Tommess]

@ Tommess. You are basing your statement on the standard intercooler. I have never once said chargecoolers don't work. What I am saying is that decent efficient intercoolers DO work and are a viable alternative. They are lighter, easier to fit and cheaper.

Bob, I'm sorry but I was talking about this intercooler:

http://www.projektop...rllkbausatz.htm

It's one of the largest available on the aftermarket. So it should perform better than the original intercooler.

But you are right here:

They are lighter, easier to fit and cheaper.

But that's all! If you can afford a chargecooler then go for it!

Well, it really doesnt't bother me anymore I just want you to be informed in order to make the right decisions for yourselves. And if I ever should find out that cooling of intake air isn't sufficient anymore I can still opt for a bigger water pump and do some additional things like MoCool and so on. It never gets boring with these cars...

Edited by Tommess, 21 July 2011 - 10:44 AM.

[turbobob]

@ Tommess. You are basing your statement on the standard intercooler. I have never once said chargecoolers don't work. What I am saying is that decent efficient intercoolers DO work and are a viable alternative. They are lighter, easier to fit and cheaper.

Bob, I'm sorry but I was talking about this intercooler:

http://www.projektop...rllkbausatz.htm

It's one of the largest available on the aftermarket. So it should perform better than the original intercooler.

But you are right here:

They are lighter, easier to fit and cheaper.

But that's all! If you can afford a chargecooler then go for it!

Well, it really doesnt't bother me anymore I just want you to be informed in order to make the right decisions for yourselves. And if I ever should find out that cooling of intake air isn't sufficient anymore I can still opt for a bigger water pump and do some additional things like MoCool and so on. It never gets boring with these cars...

But there are stage 4's out there running perfectly happy with an intercooler

[turbobob]

I've also posted my data.

What data?

In another thread. I posted a graph of the standard intercooler and an uprated intercooler. IIRC you even commented on it

[Tommess]

But there are stage 4's out there running perfectly happy with an intercooler

Yes, that's also perfectly ok with me. It all depends on what you are planning to do with the car. But for that it's always good to know what you get for your money.

[cs_]

They are running "perfectly happy" could mean some things I would not neglect: - they are mostly running idle - they do not tend to drive full throttle for any more than 20 seconds in a row - they are purely winter-season-cars - the engine electronics has been disabled in terms of protecting itself from critical conditions (check with your tuner, but he will probably not telling you if he did) - the driver is not capable to sense the power loss a proper set up engine poses when measuring IAT >55 deg C That's all possible and would go perfectly with turbobobs statement. Nonetheless even with the biggest known (to me) intercooler an acceleration from only 0 to 150km/h at normal environmental conditions will lead the IAT to rise far beyond 60 degs C. And IF the tuner of choice left the hot-air-protection of the engine untouched you will get into heavy degradation. This is a fact! If ignition and mixture are untouched, you will feel nothing bad, but in the long term ruin your engine thermally. That's a fact too.

[turbobob]

They are running "perfectly happy" could mean some things I would not neglect:
- they are mostly running idle
- they do not tend to drive full throttle for any more than 20 seconds in a row
- they are purely winter-season-cars
- the engine electronics has been disabled in terms of protecting itself from critical conditions (check with your tuner, but he will probably not telling you if he did)
- the driver is not capable to sense the power loss a proper set up engine poses when measuring IAT >55 deg C

That's all possible and would go perfectly with turbobobs statement.
Nonetheless even with the biggest known (to me) intercooler an acceleration from only 0 to 150km/h at normal environmental conditions will lead the IAT to rise far beyond 60 degs C. And IF the tuner of choice left the hot-air-protection of the engine untouched you will get into heavy degradation. This is a fact! If ignition and mixture are untouched, you will feel nothing bad, but in the long term ruin your engine thermally. That's a fact too.

Oh FFS! I'm getting tired of repeating myself on this.

I have said on more than one occasion that a stage 4 car running in excess of 300bhp with an uprated intercooler was driven from the UK to Le Mans. It was driven through France in 27 degree heat in traffic. It was then taken on track. All was fine as were the intake temps, i.e they didn't go much above 40 degrees. This info is even in this thread.

[The Batman]

so chargecoolers are better?

[turbobob]

so chargecoolers are better?

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrgh

[VXT Tim]

so chargecoolers are better?

Don't poke the bear!

[turbobob]

so chargecoolers are better?

Don't poke the bear!

Edited by turbobob, 21 July 2011 - 06:50 PM.

[KurtVerbose]

Is this where the debate is so far? 1) Given enough air flow there's no reason to go for a charge cooler. I can't think of any car that chose a charge cooler over an intercooler (sorry, after cooler) given enough air flow - F1 included, and drag racing aside as that's for only a few seconds. Please correct me if I'm wrong. 2) Some people doubt that you can fit an intercooler big enough, with enough air flow into the VX220. Point 2 is essentially the debate. Is this correct?

[turbobob]

Is this where the debate is so far?

1) Given enough air flow there's no reason to go for a charge cooler. I can't think of any car that chose a charge cooler over an intercooler (sorry, after cooler) given enough air flow - F1 included, and drag racing aside as that's for only a few seconds. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

2) Some people doubt that you can fit an intercooler big enough, with enough air flow into the VX220.

Point 2 is essentially the debate. Is this correct?

Well from my perspective, I am trying to say that an intercooler is a viable alternative to chargecoolers. It has been tried and tested and it works.

[techieboy]

It has been tried and tested and it works.

Just not for very long.

[The Batman]

That's the thing though does enough air come from the poxy sized vent?

[turbobob]

Oh ffs! How many times do we need to cover this fcuking ground? Must resist. Think calm thoughts, think calm thoughts

[rob999]

How about an easy fit interchargecooler?

[The Batman]

That was an honest question Aswell I find your posts aggressive, where's a mod

[rob999]

Joe,
I think you know one or two mods?

Also, I believe this answers your aperture query :

CC v IC data

[The Batman]

I fear clicking links