65 replies to this topic

[starlight]

I just tried phoning thompsons plastics who made the headlamps to try and buy just the lug pieces. Turns out the went into administration some time ago so I guess headlamp supply to the vxl stealers will be dry.

This may or may not help...

[adH]

Tracking down the original tooling would be a good place to start - I imagine ownership will rest with either Lotus or Vauxhall. Be aware there will be a setup charge from the moulders of somewhere between £300 - £1000 (moulder dependant) and minimum run would probably be in the region of 250 off each part to make it viable. The other option you appear to be discussing is vacuum casting??. The resin choice would have to be UV stable and high temp - so bare that in mind. Tooling typically lasts between 20 - 30 lifts, but there is often a higher reject rate when producing clear parts. I think you have mentioned about the black banding around the edge - obviously bare in mind there will be an additional charge for masking/painting over the moulded cost. At work we do vacuum casting on site and design and source injection moulding tooling, so if I/we can be of any help give me a shout. Cheers Adam

[cramman]

I just tried phoning thompsons plastics who made the headlamps to try and buy just the lug pieces. Turns out the went into administration some time ago so I guess headlamp supply to the vxl stealers will be dry.

This may or may not help...

Bollocks. That helps in a way that I guess we are fooked.

I've been given the number of a fella to try, but it's not looking good.

[starlight]

They may still be going in some form or another as a google search yeilded this:

From Plastics and Rubber Weekly 25 Feb 2009 (No, really )

"Thompson Plastics (Hull) has been bought out of administration by Redspar, a newly-created company that includes some of the plants previous managers.

The firm, which made components for the caravan and automotive markets, was seen as an unlikely sale back in January, when Charles Escott of administrator PKF, suggested the Hull site might not be a viable stand-alone business.

However, work at the Hull plant is due to restart within days, according to Escott, with around a quarter of the firm's original 200 staff re-employed."

Edited by pjohn151, 02 August 2010 - 01:04 PM.

[mandarinvx]

I may have missed this, but where are the original tools? I would imagine they are sat at some injection molding company gathering dust. I would imagine if you could track down the tool then you would be able to talk the injection molding company into setting up and running some. But there would have to be sufficient qty / price for them to set up.

Only real hope of making a quality product that will stand the test of time is o get the original tooling - sounds like the guys you have been speaking to may know where to start - no doubt the tooling is currently sat at the back of a warehouse somewhere or other (either that or melted down and re-used)

I'd love a set of rears

As for figures you're prob looking at a run of ~250 of each I'd guess

Is the manufacturers mark inthe unit anywhere

Edit- I hadn't read the second page

Edited by mandarinvx, 02 August 2010 - 01:09 PM.

[mandarinvx]

Ps - the area that will be bonded to the back of the unit is usually chemically etched apparently, to give the rough surface texture

[turbobob]

If Thompson has / had gone into Administration then I would imagine the tooling would have gone back to Lotus. After all there is a £200k asset there. Or if it hasn't and has already been posted, it may be this new company that took over Thompson may have taken over the premises along with the tools / machines. I think between Lotus and Redspar it would be possible to track down the original tooling. Adam, which plastics company do you work at? I don't actually work in the industry, but have used a few different companies to produce plastics for electronics products. I was also thinking about the vac forming. That would be a cheaper small run alternative.

[cramman]

I've tried calling the company, 01482 646464, and they are on summer shutdown. Will try again next week. Also, I've emailed Lotus.

[adH]

Adam, which plastics company do you work at? I don't actually work in the industry, but have used a few different companies to produce plastics for electronics products. I was also thinking about the vac forming. That would be a cheaper small run alternative.

I work for PDG (design consultancy in Beeston, Notts) - we have vac-casting facilities as part of our prototyping workshop, so can do small batches (1-50 off) of most plastic parts relatively economically. Might be of interest for this - but as I mentioned before the resin choice would be critical. We have done prototype tail-light lenses for cars previously.

[turbobob]

Mmm, not one I've come across. I guess I'm more used to dealing with injection molding companies directly, rather than consultants. I'm not sure of your facilities, but do you have a laser CMM? If so, it should be fairly straight forward to scan a lens in and knock up a cast. Based on your experience, what material would you suggest, and how much to knock up a cast / pump out 50 parts?

[JohnTurbo]

I was thinking about this a while ago. I would actually imagine that Vauxhall or Lotus will have the tooling. That was an expensive tool! I'd pay max $20k for a tool like that with work. That said i was pretty sure i could have these made in china from soft tooling for £100ish a pair with the tooling cost amortised into the price, off 30odd sets. My father specialises in Chinese sourcing. I decided I didn't think it was worth doing until supplies of cluster dried up a little more. I would be interested to see the results of a vac-casting or vac-forming trail.

[JohnTurbo]

Oh and btw, polycarbonate is the only material i would consider for these.

[TheRealVXed]

What you want is to manufacture the interior lenses. Changing these is better in my opinion.

[adH]

Mmm, not one I've come across. I guess I'm more used to dealing with injection molding companies directly, rather than consultants.

I'm not sure of your facilities, but do you have a laser CMM? If so, it should be fairly straight forward to scan a lens in and knock up a cast. Based on your experience, what material would you suggest, and how much to knock up a cast / pump out 50 parts?

For Vac-casting the best master part would be an original lens - preferably a new one but the chances are pretty slim. If it was a used lens we would refinish, polish to high gloss and then tool from that. This saves the cost of having master parts rapid prototyped from the CAD data, which would probably be a few hundred quid each and still require finishing.

Polycarbonate (PC)or PMMA was almost certainly the original material used for the lens. Vac-casting uses 2-part polyurethane resins that simulate certain plastics, rather than those used in mass production injection moulding. Typically they have mechanical properties of 80-90% that of plastics such as polycarbonate.

I will have a look at costs/materials when at work tomorrow if you guys think its a go-er.

Cheers

Adam

[turbobob]

Sounds like there might be some demand. And a couple of options too. Might be worth sticking up a group buy thread as well. With the laser CMM, you will scan the entire molding in and get a 3D model / dimensioned drawing. It down't take long, then you have the data electronically. Its actually quite nifty.

[slindborg]

I was thinking about this a while ago.

I would actually imagine that Vauxhall or Lotus will have the tooling. That was an expensive tool!

I'd pay max $20k for a tool like that with work.

That said i was pretty sure i could have these made in china from soft tooling for £100ish a pair with the tooling cost amortised into the price, off 30odd sets. My father specialises in Chinese sourcing.

I decided I didn't think it was worth doing until supplies of cluster dried up a little more.

I would be interested to see the results of a vac-casting or vac-forming trail.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmm based on my experience with chinese sourced 'engineering'...... I'd sooner let Vauxhall rebuild my car
Somehow one company managed to make cast ali that warped at 50deg C lmao

[mandarinvx]

Polycarbonate (PC)or PMMA was almost certainly the original material used for the lens. Vac-casting uses 2-part polyurethane resins that simulate certain plastics, rather than those used in mass production injection moulding. Typically they have mechanical properties of 80-90% that of plastics such as polycarbonate.

That sounds like a good option for the rears, that won't be subject to the same levels of everyday abuse as the fronts will see

[cramman]

Some interesting replies in here and it sounds a little more promising than my initial responses. I’m going to continue chasing a few people up and see if we can get anywhere but if it come down to manufacturing, clearly there are people on here who know a lot more than me. It's probably worth keeping this thread updatted if anyone does work anything out.

[cramman]

By way of an update, sorry if this is borring people but if it's not written on here it be lost on my desk with the rest of this crap (ie, work). I have spoken to someone at the original manufacturer and a fella there said they went pack to the supplier, wipack. So, I have rang them and have been given the name of a contact there. The fella I spoke to said it's worth asking if they can make just lenses, but as they are still making them!?! (sure he's seen some kicking about) it may be difficult. I'll chase this contact up and see what happens.

[aron916]

Thanks for your perseverance on this!