18 replies to this topic

[markv]

Been working on building a simple injector test bench. Not too exciting yet, but as I received some LSJ injectors yesterday, I just had to do a bit of a test to see what the difference is with the standard injectors



Results are here:

http://www.verboom.n...ngle=20100915.0

Looks like the 352cc/min for the LSJ's is a 3.0 bar, so the actual flow on the vx220 will be even higher due to the 3.8 bar fuel pressure. Looks like a very nice mod as the injectors are cheap and it's plug & play to fit them.

Now I only need to clean all injectors, flow them all and make sets of 4 that flow the closest

Mark

[techieboy]

Does that mean you can now alter the injector flow settings in Peter's modified ECU now, Mark?

[Exmantaa]

Does that mean you can now alter the injector flow settings in Peter's modified ECU now, Mark?

would be nice...

[Exmantaa]

According to this list it should be possible: http://www.obdtuner.com/features.html

And now it becomes also interesting for SC conversions.

[techieboy]

And now it becomes also interesting for SC conversions.

Ooooh, getting better by the minute. Just needs support for the 68mm throttle body and the new MAP sensor and it's ready to go, by the look of it.

Edit: Doesn't support the Z20LEH/VXR injectors yet.

[Exmantaa]

And now it becomes also interesting for SC conversions.

Ooooh, getting better by the minute. Just needs support for the 68mm throttle body and the new MAP sensor and it's ready to go, by the look of it.

Edit: Doesn't support the Z20LEH/VXR injectors yet.

68mm LSJ TB works (in my car) perfect with the "standard remapped" ecu, so I don't see a problem here. But as he knows what settings to alter for the 65mm, this should be easy for him.

Same for the injectors; put the right inj. parameters in and go. (Flowrate green LSJ's vs the black LET's??)

MAP sensor is also my concern, but you should be able to "tune around" this as the ECU just sees a signal from 0-5volt...

Simplified; the 0-5V (-1<>0 bar) NA mapping should be "compressed" in the SC's 0-2,5V mapping part, as the full 0-5V now ranges from -1<>+1bar. (With a 2bar MAP sensor fiitted...)

There's for sure a lot more involved here, but should be doable...

[techieboy]

Hope it's that straightforward. I had to move on up to the Astra VXR injectors (whatever colour they are) from the Z20LET injectors when I went to 300bhp. Hopefully, it would just be a case of plugging in the new flow rate and letting the ECU work everything out from there.

[markv]

And now it becomes also interesting for SC conversions.

Ooooh, getting better by the minute. Just needs support for the 68mm throttle body and the new MAP sensor and it's ready to go, by the look of it.

Edit: Doesn't support the Z20LEH/VXR injectors yet.

68mm LSJ TB works (in my car) perfect with the "standard remapped" ecu, so I don't see a problem here. But as he knows what settings to alter for the 65mm, this should be easy for him.

Same for the injectors; put the right inj. parameters in and go. (Flowrate green LSJ's vs the black LET's??)

MAP sensor is also my concern, but you should be able to "tune around" this as the ECU just sees a signal from 0-5volt...

Simplified; the 0-5V (-1<>0 bar) NA mapping should be "compressed" in the SC's 0-2,5V mapping part, as the full 0-5V now ranges from -1<>+1bar. (With a 2bar MAP sensor fiitted...)

There's for sure a lot more involved here, but should be doable...

Unfortunatly it is not that simple. The ECU is alpha-n not speed density. To do any kind of non NA work, it should be speed density. It's not going to be easy, but I think in the
end it should be possible.

As for the throttlebody, that takes some calibrating. It can't be done by users with the current version of the software, the NA version only supports the 58mm and 65mm throttlebodies.

And for the injectors, yes it should work. For the LSJ's it looks like the spray pattern is very much like to original injectors. No idea how that is with the LET version. Wouldn't be
my choice, would look for the GM stage 1/2 injectors first..

Mark

[alanoo]

Alpha-N is not a huge problem with a (Roots) SC, it works OK Is it alpha-n for fueling and ignition ?

Edited by alanoo, 16 September 2010 - 05:14 PM.

[markv]

Alpha-N is not a huge problem with a (Roots) SC, it works OK

Is it alpha-n for fueling and ignition ?

Fueling

[vocky]

I thought the z22se had 4 Bar fuel pressure

[The Batman]

When I last spoke to the Americans, they told me the 2.0 lsj runs 5bar fuel pressure

[alanoo]

Alpha-N is not a huge problem with a (Roots) SC, it works OK

Is it alpha-n for fueling and ignition ?

Fueling

Ok so really not an issue

[Exmantaa]

Alpha-N is not a huge problem with a (Roots) SC, it works OK

Is it alpha-n for fueling and ignition ?

That was my thought also for a roots sc. Pretty fixed "boost behavior", unlike a turbo...

[Nev]

For completeness and reference for future readers, I have pasted a snippet from the Bosch data sheet on the injectors for the Z20LET and Z20LEH:# It seems I cant past a few rows of XLS on here, so you will have to look on the main file on my project website (link in my footer).

Edited by Nev, 17 September 2010 - 11:53 AM.

[siztenboots]

Alpha-N is not a huge problem with a (Roots) SC, it works OK

Is it alpha-n for fueling and ignition ?

That was my thought also for a roots sc. Pretty fixed "boost behavior", unlike a turbo...

a lot of that is how they have setup up the values for the PID controller on the wastegate solenoid valve and matching the spring rates. Instead we get "sport" buttom like response.

[Exmantaa]

Alpha-N is not a huge problem with a (Roots) SC, it works OK

Is it alpha-n for fueling and ignition ?

That was my thought also for a roots sc. Pretty fixed "boost behavior", unlike a turbo...

a lot of that is how they have setup up the values for the PID controller on the wastegate solenoid valve and matching the spring rates. Instead we get "sport" buttom like response.

Was more pointed to the mapping capability of the Z22SE ecu:
The SC rpm is hard-coupled to the engine rpm, so no changes possible in engine conditions (boost pressure) for a certain TB angle &rpm.

A turbo is not "fixed" and the boostpressure can vary (spool-up) at certain rpms and TB angles, so the ecu needs to monitor this also to apply the correct mapping. (Or you don't use more ecu sophistication and simply apply more safetymargin in the map. But it's no optimal solution.)

[markv]

Was more pointed to the mapping capability of the Z22SE ecu:
The SC rpm is hard-coupled to the engine rpm, so no changes possible in engine conditions (boost pressure) for a certain TB angle &rpm.

Don't know much about the compressor setups, but wasn't there a vacuum operated bypass valve on those setups? Don't know how much of an impact that
is going to be. Ofcourse, you could always use the spare EGR control output and make the bypass computer operated and just map it

Mark

[Exmantaa]

The SC bypass operates on the vacuum behind the TB. (Combined vacuum of engine +SC) > The more the TB opens => less vacuum => bypass starts closing ( vacuum actuator against a spring) => more SC boost. The whole bypass setup seem to work pretty linear with TB opening, so... I'm now seriously considering Peter's re-mapping tool for my SC, but need to know what is/will be possible. (different injector constants, rescaling for the 2.5 bar MAP sensor, max rpm limit (78lb springs, so need >7500rpm capability) Will not be plug and play, but that's the fun part.

Edited by Exmantaa, 17 September 2010 - 04:15 PM.