106 replies to this topic

[Ken993T]

I could be wrong but I'm not aware of Eugene stomping into the other garages accusing Honda/Caterham/Elise/Porsche drivers of being girls and throwing his toys out of the pram.

I'll have a word with him amd make sure that next time he shares his observations and comments with all the drivers, no special treatment for the VX's

Edited by Ken993T, 08 October 2010 - 10:08 AM.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I could be wrong but I'm not aware of Eugene stomping into the other garages accusing Honda/Caterham/Elise/Porsche drivers of being girls and throwing his toys out of the pram.

I'll have a word with him amd make sure that next time he shares his observations and comments with all the drivers, no special treatment for the VX's

[Dave E]

Sorry if this is off topic but here's a video starring no red S1's Need to mount the new camera lower somehow but apart from that really impressed with it. I'll post a couple more this afternoon after sleepy time.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

I was not on the trackday so I hope you don't mind me putting my oar in.

I met Eugene about ten years ago, I was at Bedford in my VX220t when he passed me driving a Polo diesel (it may have been in a corner !!) but the penny did drop that I neaded to learn to drive the car on track, from that time Eugene taught me enough to win several races in Elise Trophy.

Eugene is a real nice guy and a great instructor and can clearly pedal a car very well so please don't be too harsh on him. It's in the nature of racing drivers to push the limits, it may be that Eugene got it wrong on this day, however from the video's I can't see where anybody was put in danger.

Hi Ken,

No issues at all with putting your oar in.

You will see from the comments on this thread that nobody is questioning Eugene's ability to drive a car quickly, I for one was extremely impressed with his speed around Silverstone in tricky conditions. I also used to watch him in BTCC and usually I am chuffed to bits to meet proper racing drivers of Eugene's credentials. It is also worth considering that his reaction towards us is a one off and not within his usual nature for whatever reason. Also bear in mind he did not give us the courtesy of knowing with who was shouting at us.

What is not in question is his driving standards were not in keeping with the track day regulations set out by the track day organisers, that he went past me and Jimmy in front of me in a dangerous way (in fairness Ken, you were not in the drivers seat of my car, you did not know the conditions and did not see the action that was taken to avoid incident) in tricky conditions, without consent and on the approach to one of the fastest corners of the circuit. This is in addition to his behaviour in the pit garage towards us after he had been asked to cease his participation. What is also not in question is he had already been spoken to and there had been four individual non VX complaints about him prior to mine and the instructors he overtook on the outside of Woodcote.

I am a racing driver, it is in my nature to push to the limits but on a track day, push to the limits within the rules.

I am not after a character assassination of Eugene, I am just speaking as I found.

Mike

[martinr]

it used to be a SC Honda one of Simon Scuffams , I'm sure I've seen it many times before without any problems on track.

It is actually Paul Golding's old car and was the first Honda conversion in the UK using parts from the US, before Simon Scuffham got involved. I bought it 3 years ago but I didn't like the power delivery of the Honda lump so I didn't use it much (I also have a K series S2) so I decided to convert it back to Rover. The Honda engine is now in Jeff Mileham's Time Attack Elise. On the Eugene issue, I don't want to stir things up any more but I should point out that he wasn't coaching me or "developing the car". As some of you have realised he was coaching someone else in an MX5, which I'm sure there was no issue with. We are old friends and he just took my car out to verify the handling was OK as it had some very strange characteristics when he last drove it with the Honda engine in it. Also the day was sold as "not suitable for novices" so hopefully everyone had enough experience to know the difference between someone exploring the limits and someone driving dangerously. From what I've read on here, you all seem like a pretty level-headed lot so as Ken993T said please don't hold this one issue against Eugene. He is an exceptional coach and I would highly recommend him if any of you do want to take your driving to the next level.

[VIX]

Good on you for coming on here and full respect. You are most welcome here and are in no way butting in on our forum. Great little car you have there.

As one of the "VX girls" (and, facial hair aside, some might say the prettiest!), I was in the garage and witnessed Eugene's performance. Whilst I cannot comment on any aspect of his driving either on that day or otherwise, his performance in the garage made him look a complete knob-end - and not a very big one at that.

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

it used to be a SC Honda one of Simon Scuffams , I'm sure I've seen it many times before without any problems on track.

It is actually Paul Golding's old car and was the first Honda conversion in the UK using parts from the US, before Simon Scuffham got involved. I bought it 3 years ago but I didn't like the power delivery of the Honda lump so I didn't use it much (I also have a K series S2) so I decided to convert it back to Rover. The Honda engine is now in Jeff Mileham's Time Attack Elise. On the Eugene issue, I don't want to stir things up any more but I should point out that he wasn't coaching me or "developing the car". As some of you have realised he was coaching someone else in an MX5, which I'm sure there was no issue with. We are old friends and he just took my car out to verify the handling was OK as it had some very strange characteristics when he last drove it with the Honda engine in it. Also the day was sold as "not suitable for novices" so hopefully everyone had enough experience to know the difference between someone exploring the limits and someone driving dangerously. From what I've read on here, you all seem like a pretty level-headed lot so as Ken993T said please don't hold this one issue against Eugene. He is an exceptional coach and I would highly recommend him if any of you do want to take your driving to the next level.

I think he was driving a little dangerously as I only caught sight of him moments before I was going to turn in. If I didn't spot him I would have turned in and hit him as he steamed up the inside of me. As I said before I'm not bothered, I know how it is when you're on one I just think it was then totally unfounded to blast into the pits and insult my friends and me when he was in the wrong. I don't hold a grudge, but I bet if I booked a session with him he would not be happy!!

As one of the "VX girls" (and, facial hair aside, some might say the prettiest!),

I would say so

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Turn it up LOUD!!!!!!!!!!

[Eugene Obrien]

Hello, it's Mr Angry here!! On reflection of course you were quite correct that I didn't follow the 'overtake by consent' rule as explained clearly in the briefing, so once again I apologise for that. I guess I got a bit upset when it became clear that the muliple complaints about my Elise driving were all (but one) from VX220 drivers. Call me paranoid but .... My question for you is could not the 'overtake by consent' rule be combined with a litle common sense, especially when there is a significant speed differential between cars? Would you not agree that if an overtaking move can be completed without the slower driver having to modify his planned speed or line though the following section of track then it is perfectly safe? Why put the onus on drivers having to spend time looking in their mirrors and indicating when they arguably should be looking where they're going? Look forward to hearing some other opinions on this!! Eugene

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Hello, it's Mr Angry here!!

On reflection of course you were quite correct that I didn't follow the 'overtake by consent' rule as explained clearly in the briefing, so once again I apologise for that. I guess I got a bit upset when it became clear that the muliple complaints about my Elise driving were all (but one) from VX220 drivers. Call me paranoid but ....

My question for you is could not the 'overtake by consent' rule be combined with a litle common sense, especially when there is a significant speed differential between cars? Would you not agree that if an overtaking move can be completed without the slower driver having to modify his planned speed or line though the following section of track then it is perfectly safe? Why put the onus on drivers having to spend time looking in their mirrors and indicating when they arguably should be looking where they're going?

Look forward to hearing some other opinions on this!!

Eugene

You have to watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLt6ohv0U-c

I agree entriely with what you said though, and you'll see a few cars not indicate for me to overtake and I don't think it is unsafe if care is taken by the driver, but the onus really must be on the driver to make sure they have been seen. I didn't have a problem with your driving, just your attitude which was exactly what I said to you in the pits, but you were.... Angry !!

[leevx2.2]

Hi Mr Eugene if you can drive like that in a elise k series i want some lessons so i can even try to keep up with Jim and Cliffie

[siztenboots]

I'd be the first to agree that the "by consent" and "form a orderly queue" are clumsy at times.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Hello, it's Mr Angry here!!

On reflection of course you were quite correct that I didn't follow the 'overtake by consent' rule as explained clearly in the briefing, so once again I apologise for that. I guess I got a bit upset when it became clear that the muliple complaints about my Elise driving were all (but one) from VX220 drivers. Call me paranoid but ....

My question for you is could not the 'overtake by consent' rule be combined with a litle common sense, especially when there is a significant speed differential between cars? Would you not agree that if an overtaking move can be completed without the slower driver having to modify his planned speed or line though the following section of track then it is perfectly safe? Why put the onus on drivers having to spend time looking in their mirrors and indicating when they arguably should be looking where they're going?

Look forward to hearing some other opinions on this!!

Eugene

Good on you for coming on here Eugene, I was the complainer in the red VX.

Firstly let me point out there is no issues or grudges between us VX girls and any Lotus drivers. I know we get a short shrift on SELOC but trust me, it is not reciprocated. All are welcome here and many of our members have moved on to a "real" Lotus.

I agree that "if an overtaking move can be completed without the slower driver having to modify his planned speed or line though the following section of track then it is perfectly safe?" I also agree with you when you say "Why put the onus on drivers having to spend time looking in their mirrors and indicating when they arguably should be looking where they're going?"

Sadly that is not the rule nor the case enforced on a track day. We all went to the drivers briefing and we have all heard the rules on overtaking and it is with consent on the left and on the straights only.

I didn't know it was you in the car and to be honest I didn't know who you were when you came in the garage and therefore could not have known how capable you are. On a track day, you have to cater for the lowest level of driving skill at all times. You must expect to come across drivers that will be nowhere near the racing line then just mootch across in front of you and even lift mid bend. You also somehow managed to jink the Elise you were in to the right as you came past me in what looked to me like a frustrated chopping move before blasting past Jimmy on the inside just as he came over for the apex at Maggots. That is what I thought was dangerous.

The incident we had was not the only one in that session though, you went on to do it to two other VXs (one with an instructor in it who was very unammused) and from what Siztenboots saw a Lotus or two.

Whilst I am not as experienced or good as you are, I have held a race licence for the best part of 20 years and if we had been racing, I would have shut the door on you and been up the inside of Jimmy long before this became an issue however thems not the rules.

I am in no way whiter than white but if I do step out of line I do my best to find any driver I have upset and apologise.

Your driving skills are not in question here and I for one have watched you race in BTCC and am in no doubt of your abilities. If you read the posts in full you will know that your driving was not the issue in the end, it was your behaviour in the pit garage that we found exasperating.

A track day is just that, a way for folks to get their cars on circuit in as safe an environment as possible; that is why the rules are there. Your driving, whilst awesome, was more suited to a test day.

Now can you tell me how you got round Copse so dammn quick?

Mike

[techieboy]

You have to watch this

Love the subliminal advertising.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Turn it up LOUD!!!!!!!!!!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLt6ohv0U-c

Hey Jimmy, we played nicely, some great sparring out there again. Lovin the soundtrack as well.

[danger7]

Sorry if this is off topic but here's a video starring no red S1's

Need to mount the new camera lower somehow but apart from that really impressed with it. I'll post a couple more this afternoon after sleepy time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V3WT8JmQPNs

nice laps Dave, your progress in the force has been noticed when we first met you were but the apprentice now you are the master (you can post the fiver as discussed ok).

Cheers
Ian

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

Now can you tell me how you got round Copse so dammn quick?

Watchin the rear face cam that's where you made all the time, and carried so much speed up towards Maggots!!

[Ken993T]

You have to watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLt6ohv0U-c

Is that a lap timer in your car ?

I trust it was switched off, no timing on trackdays, that's against the rules

What would you estimate your lap times to be ?

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

You have to watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLt6ohv0U-c

Is that a lap timer in your car ?

I trust it was switched off, no timing on trackdays, that's against the rules

What would you estimate your lap times to be ?

Banged to rights, but I've not been harping on about the rules.... Track was too slippy and there was too much traffic for me to get any times down (I check once I get home on circuit tools, and it has been said that these are allowed as long as you don't use the live timing just SD card data logging).

My best lap was a fluke quiet lap back in June '09. I know I could beat that now, but getting the chance is proving difficult as it's always bloody raining when I go to Silverstone!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUIxormdQQE&NR=1

[Ken993T]

My best lap was a fluke quiet lap back in June '09.

You can't leave it at that, fluke or not it still counts, so what is it ?