3266 replies to this topic

[JimmyJamJerusalem]

I have raced for too long and seen too many nasty things to want to compete without a cage and I have more plans than just Time Attack this season.

Track Days are all overtaking on the left and on straights only stuff so low risk. TA is all about balls out and whilst the risk is lower than outright racing it is more dangerous than track days and there could always be a faster car lapping that you haven't seen that dives in under brakes, into a corner at the same time you decide. Would be messy.

Your life, you decide. I have.

Dude this had better not be gamesmanship as we're a team remember.

Too old to play mind games and not interested in winding my team mate up, not my style. I leave that to others.

Good good. To address the cage though, we ran a whole TA season (other than the opener) without a cage and you never made these concerns vocal. Nobody did.

I know the spec you're building to so I don't doubt a cage is a MUST for you but it isn't for Joe. Rather than create doubt in the poor boys head why can't we just accept it and move on. I have

What cage you got Mike?

[Mike (Cliffie)]

I have the safety devices cage Jimmy. Regarding last season, it was your choice to remove the front cage for weight saving reasons but you still had a proper rear cage so concerns were not an issue as the rear cage is so much better that the standard roll hoop on the VX which is compromised with the head rest cut outs. Joe will be fine, he is a sensible driver on circuit and Time Attack is the safest motorsport environment to be in. I want my cage for other reasons and challenges.

[Nev]

Joe you will have so much power, the extra (circa) 20 KG of the cage will only affect performance by approx 2% roughly. Wait till you get it mapped and drive it at full bore, you will be plesantly surprised by how well it pulls, I am sure. It's well hard to use more than 400 BHP without mortal fear at every corner. If I were you, I'd be tempted to attend to your impending inlet charge temps issues (which I know are fundamentally tricky to fix), I think you'd gain more speed by making sure your engine doesn't retard 50 BHP off due to massive inlet temps. I know that Klassen normally starts retarding the ignition on stage 4 and 5 maps at 50 degrees C. He may even have lowered this threshold on yours and Nicks cars as a precaution (as Courtenays are sure to realise that it is a potential problem for a track car). With regard to your laminovas, would installing a nitrous kit seem like the best solution, both for (massive) cooling and some extra power for the timed laps? Such a kit is reasonably inexpensive and fast to install too... Another cheap solution (and I know it sounds bananas(!)), is to tack weld a box shape ontop of your inlet manifold. This could then have ice poured onto it which will help with inlet temps (probably quite a bit)). It sounds crazy (and messy) but I've seen this on mega powered Jap cars.

Edited by Nev, 19 January 2012 - 09:31 AM.

[alanoo]

An SC converted car won't retard ignition... as it doesn't know the post charger air temp...

[alanoo]

Aren't TA a really short format of racing ? Like just a few laps ? If so... dry ice and slightly bigger charge cooler tank is your cheap solution

[techieboy]

An SC converted car won't retard ignition... as it doesn't know the post charger air temp...

Joe's does. He's running a post charger temp sensor as part of the Z20LET ecu swap.

[alanoo]

An SC converted car won't retard ignition... as it doesn't know the post charger air temp...

Joe's does. He's running a post charger temp sensor as part of the Z20LET ecu swap.

Ah true, forgot the ECU swap...

[leevx2.2]

An SC converted car won't retard ignition... as it doesn't know the post charger air temp...

Joe is runing z220let ecu and Vxr air flow meter so should no post charger air temps
To slow lol

Edited by leevx2.2, 19 January 2012 - 10:27 AM.

[techieboy]

An SC converted car won't retard ignition... as it doesn't know the post charger air temp...

Joe's does. He's running a post charger temp sensor as part of the Z20LET ecu swap.

Ah true, forgot the ECU swap...

I think we're all waiting here, nervously, to see what the inlet temps really are. If the numbers are high for Joe with the Harrop comfortably within it's efficiency zone, who knows what our overdriven M62's are doing.

[alanoo]

An SC converted car won't retard ignition... as it doesn't know the post charger air temp...

Joe's does. He's running a post charger temp sensor as part of the Z20LET ecu swap.

Ah true, forgot the ECU swap...

I think we're all waiting here, nervously, to see what the inlet temps really are. If the numbers are high for Joe with the Harrop comfortably within it's efficiency zone, who knows what our overdriven M62's are doing.

I know... because I know a few M62 running on standalones

[techieboy]

Yep, I've seen some of those temp charts too.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Joe you will have so much power, the extra (circa) 20 KG of the cage will only affect performance by approx 2% roughly. Wait till you get it mapped and drive it at full bore, you will be plesantly surprised by how well it pulls, I am sure. It's well hard to use more than 400 BHP without mortal fear at every corner.

If I were you, I'd be tempted to attend to your impending inlet charge temps issues (which I know are fundamentally tricky to fix), I think you'd gain more speed by making sure your engine doesn't retard 50 BHP off due to massive inlet temps. I know that Klassen normally starts retarding the ignition on stage 4 and 5 maps at 50 degrees C. He may even have lowered this threshold on yours and Nicks cars as a precaution (as Courtenays are sure to realise that it is a potential problem for a track car).

With regard to your laminovas, would installing a nitrous kit seem like the best solution, both for (massive) cooling and some extra power for the timed laps? Such a kit is reasonably inexpensive and fast to install too...

Another cheap solution (and I know it sounds bananas(!)), is to tack weld a box shape ontop of your inlet manifold. This could then have ice poured onto it which will help with inlet temps (probably quite a bit)). It sounds crazy (and messy) but I've seen this on mega powered Jap cars.

sadly NOS is not allowed in Club otherwise my kit would be out of retirement by now.

[The Batman]

It's not a problem with weight If I was bothered about weight then I would strip my Vx I know off around 18kgs that I can strip out straight away. The reason I haven't done this is I don't fancy this as I still am driving it on the road and to track days etc. The reason I don't want a cage is A I won't need one and more importantly B I don't have 2k for a bit of scaffolding. I cannot see the difference of a rear safety's device cage to a standard one... Only difference is rear to middle are welded together instead of bolted and the rear cage uses addition bolt holding it down by the shock. As for intake temps who knows?! I got a trackday Saturday so will know then.

Edited by joe_589, 19 January 2012 - 11:00 AM.

[Mike (Cliffie)]

Good luck Saturday Joe, I wish I could join you for the shakedown.

[The Batman]

Feel free to come along. Will try not to roll it

[Nev]

Where is your trackday Joe? Anywhere near me (Bristol) ?

[The Batman]

silverstone - new stowe

[chris_uk]

See how things go on ur trackday and then look at the data you get back. Try if you can to set it out if you can like it would be on a time attack event, giving yourself the 20 min sessions as i think this would be a great way to get into the way it works. Also its replicating as close as you can to the actual event. If i could id come down help out but unfortunatly i cant afford it . Maybe mike or lee could go and just work with you during the day. Just an idea Edit: see you friday

Edited by chris_uk, 19 January 2012 - 11:48 AM.

[Exmantaa]

You fitted that phenolic gasket, so you should have an advantage over other SC's. But do you have some way of monitoring/logging your intake temperatures during driving? No gasket here yet, so I see my temps rising above 50*C and that's not even pushing it with a 3.05" pulley...

Edited by Exmantaa, 19 January 2012 - 11:51 AM.

[siztenboots]

have you got a scanguage to read inlet temps?