3266 replies to this topic

[Mike (Cliffie)]

I love it Joe, totally extreme and in keeping with all that is Time Attack. Cars like this break moulds and should be encouraged. As far as I can see, there is no issues with the regs on this, we have both been in touch with the scrutineer for TA and covered off the mods we are doing. As long as the Aero aids go no further that the width at the widest point of the car, which in our case is the rear wheel arch.

[siztenboots]

probably tubby ears or door mirrors are widest part on mine

[Mike (Cliffie)]

probably tubby ears or door mirrors are widest part on mine

Door mirrors don't count.

[jamiewillson]

Christ, now that is a diffuser!!!! Mine's going to look fairly extreme, but nothing like that I don't think. 12 degrees is a good starting point for the rake of the diffuser by the way. As was said above, depends on what you're trying to do and how effective the wing is, as they can can be made to work together. I'm mounting mine so that I have a way of adjusting it up and down slightly.

[I 8 a 4RE]

Christ, now that is a diffuser!!!!

Mine's going to look fairly extreme, but nothing like that I don't think. 12 degrees is a good starting point for the rake of the diffuser by the way. As was said above, depends on what you're trying to do and how effective the wing is, as they can can be made to work together. I'm mounting mine so that I have a way of adjusting it up and down slightly.

Not trying to be devil's advocate, pure interest:

How would you ever know? How would you ever test without shitloads of data and telemetry to cross-reference?

Scenario: change the diffuser rake by 2 degrees and it feels epic. So leave it there. However, what we didnt know/realize is that the sun was out, warming up the track giving more grip ... and actually the 2 degree change was a change for the worse.

Although I love all the enthusiasm ... how do we all know it works / doesnt work without data to cross-check the feeling of the car?

...

And takes his negative / pessimistic hat off again ...
...


LOVE THE WAY IT LOOKS! You should do a JPS: Joe Player Special bodykit and sell it on .org

[mbes2]

I thought a true way of areo testing was done while on track testing... Joe car looks WICKED Making changes as you go to feel the difference

Edited by mbes2, 12 March 2012 - 11:44 AM.

[jamiewillson]

Christ, now that is a diffuser!!!!

Mine's going to look fairly extreme, but nothing like that I don't think. 12 degrees is a good starting point for the rake of the diffuser by the way. As was said above, depends on what you're trying to do and how effective the wing is, as they can can be made to work together. I'm mounting mine so that I have a way of adjusting it up and down slightly.

Not trying to be devil's advocate, pure interest:

How would you ever know? How would you ever test without shitloads of data and telemetry to cross-reference?

Scenario: change the diffuser rake by 2 degrees and it feels epic. So leave it there. However, what we didnt know/realize is that the sun was out, warming up the track giving more grip ... and actually the 2 degree change was a change for the worse.

Although I love all the enthusiasm ... how do we all know it works / doesnt work without data to cross-check the feeling of the car?

...

And takes his negative / pessimistic hat off again ...
...


LOVE THE WAY IT LOOKS! You should do a JPS: Joe Player Special bodykit and sell it on .org

Well I'm no expert on the subject, but I have been giving this lots of thought recently whilst making upgrades to my car. I am also being helped a bit by a leading aerodynamicist who has lots of wind tunnel experience and CFD data/experience to hand. My aero won't look all that extreme compared to some of the Time Attack guys, but it will hopefully work extremely very well. Really it's just a case of sensibly maximising what's already available to us, rather than coming up with something completely new.

Regarding actually knowing if the diffuser, splitter and the wing are working well, there are a few things you can quite easily do on track which eliminate the other variables you mention. The one I'll be using is a bit of fluid droplet testing. Basically, just some coloured duck oil or similar which you place on the leading edge of the wing or on parts of the undertray, splitter etc to monitor what the air is doing and if it is staying attached to the surfaces in question. Easy to do and highlights when you make a change that doesn't work. Lots of info online on how to do it properly. Whether you would be able to physically feel the changes is questionable though.

Edited by jamiewillson, 12 March 2012 - 12:42 PM.

[The Batman]

cant wait to see your car at TA jamie !!

tempted to do this....

[JG]

do it.

[jamiewillson]

Personally, I'd leave it straight as it should work better like that. You can't put it back on once you cut it off!! I hope I can make it to the first round. My gearbox now won't be ready until two weeks before. I think I've decided to go in Club Pro now seeing as the tyre regs are so free. What tyres are you ging to get?

[jamiewillson]

Actually, I've changed my mind. Cutting it back probably won't do any harm as most of the carbon part is behind the wheels anyway and not linked up with the flat floor.

[The Batman]

i know i have to reduce the width! as they currently stick out wider than the car, but least this way i can use the cf off cut to mirror the alli diffuser with a blade? going down the middle as such

Edited by joe_589, 12 March 2012 - 01:15 PM.

[I 8 a 4RE]

Christ, now that is a diffuser!!!!

Mine's going to look fairly extreme, but nothing like that I don't think. 12 degrees is a good starting point for the rake of the diffuser by the way. As was said above, depends on what you're trying to do and how effective the wing is, as they can can be made to work together. I'm mounting mine so that I have a way of adjusting it up and down slightly.

Not trying to be devil's advocate, pure interest:

How would you ever know? How would you ever test without shitloads of data and telemetry to cross-reference?

Scenario: change the diffuser rake by 2 degrees and it feels epic. So leave it there. However, what we didnt know/realize is that the sun was out, warming up the track giving more grip ... and actually the 2 degree change was a change for the worse.

Although I love all the enthusiasm ... how do we all know it works / doesnt work without data to cross-check the feeling of the car?

...

And takes his negative / pessimistic hat off again ...
...


LOVE THE WAY IT LOOKS! You should do a JPS: Joe Player Special bodykit and sell it on .org

Well I'm no expert on the subject, but I have been giving this lots of thought recently whilst making upgrades to my car. I am also being helped a bit by a leading aerodynamicist who has lots of wind tunnel experience and CFD data/experience to hand. My aero won't look all that extreme compared to some of the Time Attack guys, but it will hopefully work extremely very well. Really it's just a case of sensibly maximising what's already available to us, rather than coming up with something completely new.

Regarding actually knowing if the diffuser, splitter and the wing are working well, there are a few things you can quite easily do on track which eliminate the other variables you mention. The one I'll be using is a bit of fluid droplet testing. Basically, just some coloured duck oil or similar which you place on the leading edge of the wing or on parts of the undertray, splitter etc to monitor what the air is doing and if it is staying attached to the surfaces in question. Easy to do and highlights when you make a change that doesn't work. Lots of info online on how to do it properly. Whether you would be able to physically feel the changes is questionable though.

Yeah funny you say that - I was once lectured on CFD and how it is changing for instance cooling design on cars as well. Often times, less is more!

Remember the 575 GT - even the hoodscoop was closed on the race car as too much airflow actually had a reverse effect on downforce and cooling...



(Yes, had to be the Dutch one

Jamie, you have pics of your car?

[The Batman]

I am going to put a naca duct into my roof scoop to allow some air flow to keep me cool in the cabin due to the lack of windows

[jamiewillson]

I am going to put a naca duct into my roof scoop to allow some air flow to keep me cool in the cabin due to the lack of windows

That'll be fun if it rains!!! I've fitted slider apertures into my side windows for that after also thinking about a naca duct in the scoop. What tyres you running Joe?

[jamiewillson]

Christ, now that is a diffuser!!!!

Mine's going to look fairly extreme, but nothing like that I don't think. 12 degrees is a good starting point for the rake of the diffuser by the way. As was said above, depends on what you're trying to do and how effective the wing is, as they can can be made to work together. I'm mounting mine so that I have a way of adjusting it up and down slightly.

Not trying to be devil's advocate, pure interest:

How would you ever know? How would you ever test without shitloads of data and telemetry to cross-reference?

Scenario: change the diffuser rake by 2 degrees and it feels epic. So leave it there. However, what we didnt know/realize is that the sun was out, warming up the track giving more grip ... and actually the 2 degree change was a change for the worse.

Although I love all the enthusiasm ... how do we all know it works / doesnt work without data to cross-check the feeling of the car?

...

And takes his negative / pessimistic hat off again ...
...


LOVE THE WAY IT LOOKS! You should do a JPS: Joe Player Special bodykit and sell it on .org

Well I'm no expert on the subject, but I have been giving this lots of thought recently whilst making upgrades to my car. I am also being helped a bit by a leading aerodynamicist who has lots of wind tunnel experience and CFD data/experience to hand. My aero won't look all that extreme compared to some of the Time Attack guys, but it will hopefully work extremely very well. Really it's just a case of sensibly maximising what's already available to us, rather than coming up with something completely new.

Regarding actually knowing if the diffuser, splitter and the wing are working well, there are a few things you can quite easily do on track which eliminate the other variables you mention. The one I'll be using is a bit of fluid droplet testing. Basically, just some coloured duck oil or similar which you place on the leading edge of the wing or on parts of the undertray, splitter etc to monitor what the air is doing and if it is staying attached to the surfaces in question. Easy to do and highlights when you make a change that doesn't work. Lots of info online on how to do it properly. Whether you would be able to physically feel the changes is questionable though.

Yeah funny you say that - I was once lectured on CFD and how it is changing for instance cooling design on cars as well. Often times, less is more!

Remember the 575 GT - even the hoodscoop was closed on the race car as too much airflow actually had a reverse effect on downforce and cooling...



(Yes, had to be the Dutch one

Jamie, you have pics of your car?

I've got a website I made up a few weeks ago with a few pics on.
http://thimotorsport.co.uk

[I 8 a 4RE]

Christ, now that is a diffuser!!!!

Mine's going to look fairly extreme, but nothing like that I don't think. 12 degrees is a good starting point for the rake of the diffuser by the way. As was said above, depends on what you're trying to do and how effective the wing is, as they can can be made to work together. I'm mounting mine so that I have a way of adjusting it up and down slightly.

Not trying to be devil's advocate, pure interest:

How would you ever know? How would you ever test without shitloads of data and telemetry to cross-reference?

Scenario: change the diffuser rake by 2 degrees and it feels epic. So leave it there. However, what we didnt know/realize is that the sun was out, warming up the track giving more grip ... and actually the 2 degree change was a change for the worse.

Although I love all the enthusiasm ... how do we all know it works / doesnt work without data to cross-check the feeling of the car?

...

And takes his negative / pessimistic hat off again ...
...


LOVE THE WAY IT LOOKS! You should do a JPS: Joe Player Special bodykit and sell it on .org

Well I'm no expert on the subject, but I have been giving this lots of thought recently whilst making upgrades to my car. I am also being helped a bit by a leading aerodynamicist who has lots of wind tunnel experience and CFD data/experience to hand. My aero won't look all that extreme compared to some of the Time Attack guys, but it will hopefully work extremely very well. Really it's just a case of sensibly maximising what's already available to us, rather than coming up with something completely new.

Regarding actually knowing if the diffuser, splitter and the wing are working well, there are a few things you can quite easily do on track which eliminate the other variables you mention. The one I'll be using is a bit of fluid droplet testing. Basically, just some coloured duck oil or similar which you place on the leading edge of the wing or on parts of the undertray, splitter etc to monitor what the air is doing and if it is staying attached to the surfaces in question. Easy to do and highlights when you make a change that doesn't work. Lots of info online on how to do it properly. Whether you would be able to physically feel the changes is questionable though.

Yeah funny you say that - I was once lectured on CFD and how it is changing for instance cooling design on cars as well. Often times, less is more!

Remember the 575 GT - even the hoodscoop was closed on the race car as too much airflow actually had a reverse effect on downforce and cooling...



(Yes, had to be the Dutch one

Jamie, you have pics of your car?

I've got a website I made up a few weeks ago with a few pics on.
http://thimotorsport.co.uk

Nice!

Do you not have a dayjob or gf ;-)

Your commitment is very impressive!!

[Bargi]

Nice!

Do you not have a dayjob or gf ;-)

Your commitment is very impressive!!

[The Batman]

is that to me or jamie?! if to me then nope no dayjob or gf!

[The Batman]

tow barge has landed!

Edited by joe_589, 12 March 2012 - 07:33 PM.