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Vx Targa Roof System


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#1 speedyK

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 11:04 PM

(Warning! Long, ranty post – I need it as therapy :rolleyes: :P )

History lesson:

1961: Triumph bring out the world's first "targa". The metal hardtop is too big to take with you, but is a one piece construction and, though it is heavy, it can be put on the car by one person – fixing is by four bolts (one at each corner), takes about 8 minutes and is waterproof. A simple, stash-in-the-car soft top can travel with you when the hardtop is off. I know because I had a 1965 TR4A identical to the one below.

1972 : Fiat launches the X1/9. The fibreglass hardtop can be taken with you (fitting neatly and securely under the front boot cover) obviating the need for a soft top, is a one-piece construction, is light and can be put on the car by one person – fixing is by four over-centre latches (one at each corner), takes about 8 seconds and is waterproof. I know because I had an 1981 X1/9 1500 identical to the one below.

1977 : Lancia (under Fiat) launches the Beta Spider. The fibreglass hardtop can be taken with you (fitting neatly and securely in the boot) obviating the need for a soft top, is a one-piece construction, is light and can be put on the car by one person – fixing is by four over-centre latches (one at each corner), takes about 8 seconds and is still almost waterproof on my 1981 model which I still own, pictured below.

Being a big mid-engined car fan, when the first pics of the Elise were released I was very keen. When the production version incorporated a real enclosed rool hoop with provision for a roof, I was even keener. When I found that GM were going to offer a detachable hardtop with their Elise-based car, I knew it was time to order. The GM people claimed they were keen to make a more practical, user-friendly car than the Elise but with the retention of all its dynamic thrills – brilliant stuff! B) I ordered my Speedster with all options, including hardtop, in early 2000. The car, without the hardtop, was delivered in April 2001. I was informed that the hardtop design was being "improved". Finally, a year later (2 years after I had ordered the car :blink: ), I was asked to bring my Speedster in to have the hardtop fitted, in April 2002.

I watched as the team of four mechanics got the collection of strange-shaped bits and pieces and, with the help of the little English-language only :blink: laminated sheet, tried to work out how the fcuk the bits went together and where they fitted. They finally worked out where the bits went and proceded to fasten up the 9 torx-headed bolts. Took them about half an hour. Off I went, and no sooner did I get down the motorway sliproad and acclerate, than there was a heart-attack inducing noise as the top detached itself and lifted on both rear mounts :o . Could have easily been killed if I was of a jumpy nature. One very angry driver :angry: returned to the dealer for the mechanics to have a second attempt. After completing this task, they sent me on my way without the torx tool – as I found when I got home and phoned them. It was never found and they could not get a GM replacement, so got me a screwdriver-style one.

This, so-good-that-it-takes-2-years-to-deliver-and-four-GM-mechanics-half-an-hour-to-fit-and-it-still -isn't-on-properly hardtop was fine for the next couple of weeks until I went of to Hockenheim. At 135mph, the hardtop "popped" again on the rear mountings. 14 months later (!!!) when my clutch failed at Hock. (no, not due to my driving – Opel admitted a material defect) I found an unexplained little package in the car with two black plastic bits in. When I got round to removing the hardtop, I found that those bits were replacement, modified parts – turns out the lipped part the hardtop lugs retain in were originally too small. Fitted them myself.

Summary: Over forty years ago, Triumph made the first targa and it was easier to fit and stayed on better than the VX one! Over thirty years ago, Fiat made a light simple, easy-to-fit and take with you targa top. And the VX leaks the most! AND to add to the perfection (NOT), I ordered a "silver" car so that the "silver" hard top would match, along with the "silver" screen surround and "tie the car together optically. Do they match? Do they Fcuk! It looks so amateur – instead of being the most cohesive colour choice, it quite simply looks wrong. :angry:

Getting ready for Hockenheim again, tonight I got my hardtop out of its bag and looked at the laminated instruction sheet to remind myself. First thing I read is, "Installation and removal of the hard top is intended to be a seasonal, rather than as a frequent occurence." (sic). I've done this a few times now and, even though I've written on the bits where they go, I still dont find it funny p*ssing about with various bits of nondescript plastic and arsing about in the gloom under the top trying to get the sodding torx bolts to seat and not trapping the seals and not trapping the bracket tether wires, etc. etc. Having the Lancia as an example of just how easy it can be only frustrates me more.

For God's sake!!! A tin-pot little firm on the edge of bankrupcy did it better over forty years ago. Fiat perfected it. This top is not the user-friendly item I was promised by GM – quite bluntly, its a total and utter P.O.S.! Any aftermarket alternative could hardly be worse!

I just hope those responsible at GM hears my complaints, 'cos they have wasted so much of my time with their incredibly cr@p design, that they should be made to feel uncomfortable about it. I wouldn't employ them to design a brick for me, let alone a hardtop.

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#2 rasputin

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 11:11 PM

having a bad day dude :drink: :drink: :drink: :groupjump:

#3 speedyK

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Posted 27 May 2004 - 11:17 PM

having a bad day dude
:drink: :drink: :drink:
:groupjump:

:lol:

Yeah, luckily the car itself is so good to drive that I can forget the fcuking appaling hardtop again once it's fitted. :D

#4 Purebob

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 06:22 AM

I completely agree. The impracticality is the main reason I didn't get a hardtop for my VX. I never had a proper detachacble roof car before the VX (two glass panels in my Wife's Rover Tomcat hardly count) but I see no reason on earth why the VX hardtop should be so complex to attac, seat and secure. ** BTW ** was the X1/9 really intro'ed in '72?...wow. Bloody hell, it must've seemed like a spaceship back then. Its still a lovely little thing even today IMO , its lines haven't aged at all. I always wanted one, but I was a bit big to fit in AND the ones I tried were dissolving in rain like sugarlumps in hot tea. The VX is the spiritual successor to the X1/9 I think.

#5 Thorney

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 06:44 AM

How about this (teaser alert)

Posted Image

Posted Image

We should have them in 3-4 weeks :)

#6 Jase_MK

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 07:15 AM

I fix/remove my hardtop almost on a daily basis, depending on what the weather look like in the morning before I go to work. I do it myself (not sure why it needs 2 people?) and it takes about 5 minutes. Thorney's quick-fix one looks like it takes even less time. Question - The plastic trim bits, are they neccesary for safety or do they just hide the not-so-aesthetic fixing bolts? because they take longer to fit than the hood itself. If not, then it's just a case of sitting the roof on the car, getting in, doing up 4 bolts and you're off.

Edited by Jase_MK, 28 May 2004 - 07:17 AM.


#7 rasputin

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 07:32 AM

i dont know what all the fuss is about :9mm: i leave the plastic trim off aswell and the roof takes mins to fit. :groupjump:

#8 garyk220

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 07:40 AM

The rear trim panels are cosmetic only. The front one, secured by 3 bolts is there to keep the hardtop in place at high speed. A speedster, driven by a GM exec, lost the hardtop on the autobahn in Germany. The hardtop re-design included the front panel and revised rear lugs as mentioned by Speedy.

#9 David75

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 08:49 AM

How about this (teaser alert)

Posted Image

very nice, still I wait for price, availability for france and if it's possible to fit it to a VXT (yeah I know, we are on a forum about VXs hehehe but one never knows ;) )

C u

#10 jneill

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 09:04 AM

very nice, still I wait for price, availability for france and if it's possible to fit it to a VXT (yeah I know, we are on a forum about VXs hehehe but one never knows ;) )

It'll fit a VXT for sure, as that's what Thorney drives B)

#11 TonyKL

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 09:36 AM

Are the hardtops that bad? I would have to have a hard top if I got a VX, not chance I'd leave it in london with the softtop!! Also, whilst we are almost on the subject, is the softop always in the car or is it removable like the hard. Can the hard top fit in the boot? (i've no idea of size of these things) Thanks

#12 Jase_MK

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 09:38 AM

Also, whilst we are almost on the subject, is the softop always in the car or is it removable like the hard. Can the hard top fit in the boot? (i've no idea of size of these things)
Thanks

Hard top won't fit in the car. The soft top rolls up and either goes in the boot, on the shelf behind the seats or on the passenger seat if you're lazy.

#13 WoodenDummy

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 09:42 AM

Are the hardtops that bad? I would have to have a hard top if I got a VX, not chance I'd leave it in london with the softtop!!

I wouldn't worry to much, it's just a pain if you want to remove to and put it back everyday.

#14 UKspeedster

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 09:52 AM

I'm still intrigued to see how the gullwing opens whilst wet, without draining into the cabin... Must be some serious guttering going on! :D

#15 speedyK

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 10:50 AM

i dont know what all the fuss is about :9mm:
i leave the plastic trim off aswell
and the roof takes mins to fit.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: (hollow laugh)

Yeah, it's simply perfect! :rolleyes: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

#16 speedyK

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 11:04 AM

I fix/remove my hardtop... ... takes about 5 minutes.

Thank you – so that's in the hands of someone with routine, as opposed to me who takes nearer to 15 minutes.

Point is, if you do the maths, compared with 8 seconds as achieved 30 years ago, it's far too long (37.5 times to be precise). :beat: Unnecessary!

Edited by speedyK, 28 May 2004 - 11:04 AM.


#17 casino

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 04:24 PM

Dude Maybe if you ask nicely someone will fit you up with an electric motor driven hard-top. Just press a little button and away it goes. The wheeerr of motors and its propelled into the heavens parachuting itself into your garage. Otherwise its brused knuckles a tad of elbow grease and hey ho up she rises. Somehow I prefer the latter option, more in keeping with the character of a hand made car that has many a niggly fault. Stick your soft top on and GO DRIVE. :) :D :) :D :) :D

#18 exjagman

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 04:59 PM

I'm still intrigued to see how the gullwing opens whilst wet, without draining into the cabin... Must be some serious guttering going on! :D

If it were me, I would get in and out of the car as if the standard hard top was in place :blink:

#19 David75

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Posted 28 May 2004 - 08:23 PM

Another point with the gullwing top: do we get two separate piece we can store in the trunk? It's important to know wether it's possible to uncover our baby when the sun is shiny ;)




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